PK immunity & How well it really works.

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NiteHawk
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PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby NiteHawk » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:12 pm

I just wanted to ask now that it has been in, for the PK immunity as I know some people been upset / quit over being PKed. Being PK'ed several times in a row can be tough and I'm wondering how the PK immunity system is working. Obviously:

1. You have to die 3 times in an hour for PK immunity to activate. You are then immune for 1 hour.
2. It does not matter WHO kills you, any death counts towards the ticker. So if they die by any alt it counts towards the 3 deaths.
3. You cannot fight back, otherwise immunity doesn't work on you. Fighting while you are immune also removes immunity.
4. You actually have to be killed for it to count, not just being attacked.
5. If you heal someone who has a PVP flag on them (Person has PVP attacked in the last minute or two) you lose immunity.
6. Some rooms are except. Event areas, key areas, oad boss areas, etc.


It's a pretty basic system but maybe the amount of deaths or PK deaths per X hours need to be adjusted. I think an immunity of one hour is OK however and that does not need changing.

I've heard of some people being upset over it, specially some new players who left the game. Right now new player retention is pretty hard. Getting killed 3 times every hour specially if they are being targeted is tough on someone. I understand that sometimes the person being PK'd can be less than nice in pages, but I think it still warrants an ask on adjustment as we're trying to find ways to keep new players WITHOUT having to add things that simply won't work well, like non-pk areas, which would (to me) simply destroy the game.

Also, the system might not even be triggering enough, I.E. someone might die three times to players, but all three deaths occurred within 2 hours, not 1 hour, thus they don't get immunity. Most of the times if they run off they don't get killed several times, but I don't know how to really combat that other than adjusting the amount of hours PKs are stored for immunity to trigger. Obviously there is still that issue where being hunted for hours and not dying is a thing, but how do players actually deal with that instead of getting sick of the game or stressed? Do we tell them to level in an arena until 25 because someone has it out for you?

I understand that PK'ing is a part of the game, it will always be apart of the game. What I want however is a fair system for both sides. I was thinking either reduce the amount of kills to 2 per hour (which I don't think would work still.) or maybe increase it to 'you have to die 3 times in 3 hours for PK immunity to activate'. And obviously the other rules would still apply. Right now I don't think the system really does much because no one dies that much normally.

If anyone has any other suggestions that don't involve a non PK area feel free to suggest here.

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Lateralus
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby Lateralus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:39 pm

Yes it sucks getting pked over and over. I personally love open world pvp but dont even bother unless I know that person is not a new person. I think beefing up anti pk is fine too but you have to keep in mind some people play this just for pking / pvp we dont wanna lose those guys either.

I think the above seems fine but then again I don't mind getting pked.

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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby Terron » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:11 am

Remove pk immunity/remove pk exp loss.

a level 25 can suicide kill a boss that can figuratively drop level 25 equipment. a level 7 cant die to a mosquito without being penalized for it. i don't think much else needs said about it.

personally i dont pk levelers because if i did, its 100x more likely theyll pk my leveler aswell. id rather eliminate the downward spiral.
pking is part of the game so it need to be available. however, it is being left as a grieving tool. i dont think pkers roam the earth to grief people, but dropping 40 minutes of exp sucks for everyone. some peoople only play an hour or two a night. pks are devastating like that.
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby JadeFalcon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:15 pm

What terron said.
No exp loss on PKing, and i even daresay no loss of items or gold. Death sickness is enough.
I'd just put, for "punishment" sake, a slight change in description after being pk'ed, something along the lines of "x is reeling from defeat"
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:24 pm

Terron wrote:Remove pk immunity/remove pk exp loss.

a level 25 can suicide kill a boss that can figuratively drop level 25 equipment. a level 7 cant die to a mosquito without being penalized for it. i don't think much else needs said about it.

personally i dont pk levelers because if i did, its 100x more likely theyll pk my leveler aswell. id rather eliminate the downward spiral.
pking is part of the game so it need to be available. however, it is being left as a grieving tool. i dont think pkers roam the earth to grief people, but dropping 40 minutes of exp sucks for everyone. some peoople only play an hour or two a night. pks are devastating like that.


What terron said.
No exp loss on PKing, and i even daresay no loss of items or gold. Death sickness is enough.
I'd just put, for "punishment" sake, a slight change in description after being pk'ed, something along the lines of "x is reeling from defeat"


That's another option, aka no PK immunity but no PK XP loss. I know this sounds terrible when I say it, but there needs to be a 'oh shit' feeling when a PKer I know that often kills passes, (and I know this as I do level on my own or with my lady). I think SOMETHING needs to be to be removed for PKing to still be somewhat worth it and fun. Items for sure, thats what SB'ing is about, theres so much abuse that can occur with no item loss (scales, etc) that would require major changes, but I think it is fine as it is. I think gold is OKAY to lose as well. If you remove all three, you make PKing kind of worthless.

I kind of feel if we do this we should maybe add 20 or 25 mil XP to all classes too. Maybe this is wrong thinking and leveling is fine as it is though.

Regardless, could work.

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Folder
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby Folder » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:56 pm

I think it's not a terrible idea to get rid of XP loss (keep gold and item loss, as you said it does need to be scary). Please don't add 25mil xp to lvling though lol.
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daedroth
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby daedroth » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:30 am

I don't really pk, but here is my tuppence worth.
The game needs risk/reward.
There needs to be some kind of risk while you are out levelling (excluding the beasty your levelling on) and pkers need some kind of reward for their kill.
Remove the risk/reward factor and the game will become terribly boring.
Levellers already have more protection than they had in old rok and anyone who needs more protection than what is already in place probably needs a wet nurse (I do not think they would stay long anyway).
Anyone play Fallout 2 online? If you died there, you did not lose experience (I think) but you lost everything you had on you (if you were in a random map location - if you weren't you COULD run back to your body but then the person/thing that killed you could be waiting or likely would have looted your body anyway). Damn game was brutal, but lots of people play(ed) it.
It is fun to survive a pk attempt, it is fun to pk someone, it is fun to win in a fight.
Dying to a pker is a learning experience (or not - depends on the person :) ).
Also, my son, one day you too will have your own 25ther (if you don't have already), then you can track down your pker (and their levelling alts) and go for revenge!
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Roxette
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby Roxette » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:50 am

I'm guessing a lvl difference has been discussed, but just in case it hasn't, what about a +/- 3 lvl pk limit. Lvl 25 could only go after 22+, I'm sure people will just deck certain toons at each threshold to get their pk jollys off, but again that's a lot of work. I personally don't care PK or not PK I was just trying to meet in the middle.


OR

Or what about an option to select at the toon creation screen of you want to be PvP or not, if you select yes, game stays the same, if you select no can you give them like a 15% exp reduction. If you select no PvP that can NEVER be changed on that toon, to prevent people lvling nonpk then changing PK at 25.
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JadeFalcon
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby JadeFalcon » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:37 am

I agree with Folder. Leveling is a slow hog as it is.
Perhaps then, make exp losses worse if you die to NPCs (you ninny!) and non-existent if you die to players. This might actually even help people fighting more (which is fun).
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NiteHawk
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Re: PK immunity & How well it really works.

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:21 am

JadeFalcon wrote:I agree with Folder. Leveling is a slow hog as it is.
Perhaps then, make exp losses worse if you die to NPCs (you ninny!) and non-existent if you die to players. This might actually even help people fighting more (which is fun).


That might be a good idea. Leave it for NPCs and then remove it for PVP. I don't mind removing it completely too (as it was said that a level 20 for example if they are in a OAD and die they lose XP but a level 25 does not in an OAD.)

Talking about the whole nonPK characters that Rox brought up, it's not a good idea because people will abuse it. You can make nonPK chars to run OADs or keys in and laugh as no one can kill you in key areas. Immune chars stealing things etc. Too much stuff to actually change to make it work and you'd either have to have them die anyways in areas or block them from entering. Then block them from picking up specific items, etc. It's a big hassle though I think.

I don't think we should limit it by level as well (i.e. 3 level variance max). I feel like it would be pretty boring as we already raised it to level 16, I think it's a good level around to learn that PKing is a fair thing in this game and you have enough HP to normally avoid 25'ers even if they get a hit off on you unless your exhausted. (which is a tactic).

We could raise the default drop rate to 50% too but I don't know if this is really needed. 33% on default is probably OK, just bringing it up for some comments.

I think the best option here is to either remove it completely, or remove it on PK only. Leave gold and item drops. If ya'll had to pick, what one would be better?


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