The current "meta" for endgame PvP

[NiteHawk]

Stuff

Yeah normally you get some extra points and you either put it into INT or CHR, both have been balanced on a druid at an average of about 16 rather then higher values because in most cases this won't be a thing. I think that is fine though. And as you say, it is a flexable class. It doesn't mean you can't tank without charisma, there is still a BASE value that druids get. I've balanced it out with lower stats with a druid for int and char because it's not the normal to have lets say 20 charisma, or 20 int. Not without larger sacrifices. So if you go INT, you will be better as spells and 'OK' at tanking, not horrible at tanking. If you go with charisma, you'll still heal, but obviously for a lower amount, but it won't be the same as a cleric who had 10 int, because formula is different and they don't get a base HP bonus for example on cure like druids do.

First up, I will never do 'set stats' per wisdom. What I mean is that for example, 23 wisdom = 45 str regardless of your str etc. That will never happen in this game as it completely one sides things worse off than they are now. So the whole 'main attribute' thing is true yeah, but you cannot say wisdom and druid morph works the same or should work the same as INT, cause it does not. Druids are based on these three important stats as a whole for their morphing, STR, AGI, and WIS.


Going to do cat form only to start.

AGI = (entityWisdom-5) * 25 * 0.00575
STR = entityWisdom * 25 * 0.04
AC = math.floor(entityWisdom * 25 * 0.064)

Code: Select all

24 Wisdom
2.7 agi boost.
24 str boost.
38 AC gain

23 Wisdom
2.6 agi boost.
23 str boost.
36 AC gain

22 Wisdom
2.4 agi boost.
22 str boost.
35 AC gain.

21 Wisdom
2.3 agi boost.
21 str boost.
33 AC gain.

20 Wisdom
2.1 agi boost.
20 str boost.
32 AC gain.


Using +1 on all these races:
A gnome would have 39 str, 23.7 agi, at level 25.
A HE would have 40 str, 23.4 agi at level 25.
A human wold have 41 str, 22.3 agi at level 25.
An elf would have 40 str, 24.4 agi at level 25.
An elemental would have 38 str, 21.7 agi at level 25. (though cat form isn't what these guys work best in)
An DE would have 41 str, 24.3 agi at level 25.
An Ling would have 39 str, 25.3 agi, at level 25.
A Dwarf would have 42 str, 21.3 agi, at level 25.

I am not disagreeing that a little tweaking in order, and that druids as a whole need a little adjustments, but the stat gains aren't 'that bad'. In bear form obviously you'll gain more AC and the split will be larger, and AC DOES make a difference when its 10-15 ac more. Maybe something like this would be better.


AGI = (entityWisdom-9) * entityWisdom * 0.0105
STR = (entityWisdom-5) * entityWisdom * 0.063
AC = math.floor(entityWisdom * 25 * 0.064)

Code: Select all

24 Wisdom
3.8 agi boost.
28.7 str boost.
38 AC gain

23 Wisdom
3.4 agi boost.
26.1 str boost.
36 AC gain

22 Wisdom
3.0 agi boost.
23.6 str boost.
35 AC gain.

21 Wisdom
2.6 agi boost.
21.2 str boost.
33 AC gain.

20 Wisdom
2.3 agi boost.
18.9 str boost.
32 AC gain.


Using +1 on all these races:
A gnome would have 42.1 str, 24.4 agi, at level 25.
A HE would have 40.2 str, 23.6 agi at level 25.
A human wold have 41.2 str, 22.6 agi at level 25.
An elf would have 41.6 str, 25 agi at level 25.
An elemental would have 42.7 str, 22.8 agi at level 25.
An DE would have 41.2 str, 24.6 agi at level 25.
An Ling would have 39.2 str, 25.6 agi, at level 25.
A Dwarf would have 42.2 str, 21.6 agi, at level 25.

So generally what we have here is a slight change. AGI is creeped up a bit since I think it is ok, but also the lowest AGI will get more boost. STR is the bigger thing though too, you can obviously see now the difference with Lings since they have high AGI, but lowest STR, but gnomes/elementals, etc are more tough.

I didn't touch AC since AC is fine I think generally. It's meant to be around medium class armor in this form.

[Terron]

yeah i didnt mean 100 in the current settings, doesn't fit. if it cant be balanced in the system than it cant be done. its just in a fight 60 hps doesnt do anything for you, it isnt even close to being on par with other stats.

i mean i understand the whole 750 hp gnomes thing with them getting wrecked by 1300 hp characters. im sure it can be more around 100 but might not be possible in 25 levels, which may be the deciding factor in general. it is alot better than it was before, except for horcs and dwarves lol.

i would +1 end an elemental if i didn't have to -2 wis to do it. the only niche is to overwhelm enemy mages and thats already hard with a racial of 18% mr vs 25. in comparison to gnome, 21 int vs 23 the gnome hits more often, slightly and for about 21.5 int worth of damage so the -15 SR isnt a massive factor. accounts for half a hit in an entire fight , and the hps rounds out to a little more than 1 hit the +1 end(if wis and int could remain max) would put it over a solid 2 hits rounding to 3 which i like those odds.

anyhow keep up the good work and have some fun once in awhile

EDIT: as far as the druid it just didnt seem to hit, my fighters hit, but yeah i expect misses on higher level monsters but cure doesnt miss so u can just do steady low damage for exp and thats what i prefer currently.

as far as the horc super hp thing yeah 100 per end would put it back to the lings must die age, but changing it just made horcs have no niche at all, except praying for luck to hit or monster bashing. critter bashing is a fun niche tho, don't get me wrong. i still will never understand how 18 str and 17 end is considered a warrior that can be compared to 25 str and 22 end. its one of the reasons str affects hit rolls in Dnd and heavy armor has max dex bonus allotment. i mean if 40 is the 2 stat average (human)the ling is at 35 a half-orc is at 47. i will never see 4-5 agility being greater than 7 str and 5 end.

[NiteHawk]

yeah i didnt mean 100 in the current settings, doesn't fit. if it cant be balanced in the system than it cant be done. its just in a fight 60 hps doesnt do anything for you, it isnt even close to being on par with other stats.

i mean i understand the whole 750 hp gnomes thing with them getting wrecked by 1300 hp characters. im sure it can be more around 100 but might not be possible in 25 levels, which may be the deciding factor in general. it is alot better than it was before, except for horcs and dwarves lol.

i would +1 end an elemental if i didn't have to -2 wis to do it. the only niche is to overwhelm enemy mages and thats already hard with a racial of 18% mr vs 25. in comparison to gnome, 21 int vs 23 the gnome hits more often, slightly and for about 21.5 int worth of damage so the -15 SR isnt a massive factor. accounts for half a hit in an entire fight , and the hps rounds out to a little more than 1 hit the +1 end(if wis and int could remain max) would put it over a solid 2 hits rounding to 3 which i like those odds.

anyhow keep up the good work and have some fun once in awhile

Yeah I suppose but isn't having to change the way AGI or STR works to compensate for higher HP just artificial then? I.E. 1000 HP with 100 damage hits is the same as 2000 HP with 200 damage hits. I think the HP itself could be tweaked a little with the current formula, because I don't feel like the STR and DODGE are bad right now but I could understand a minor adjustment depending on the situation on HP and characters.

[Terron]

i like the fantasy aspect of games, but yeah bringing every stat inline isn't easy. and the lower the level cap the harder it is. i mean i liked horc and ling when i started testing characters, now i like elves /shrug. first for me im not really an elf guy lol. i like gnomes humans and dwarves, and dont really value them very well on this game atm. which is exciting.

humans for instance are supposed to be average across the board. but the average of whats used is like 21str 22agi 19end 18int 18wis x. looks like a really smart saurian lol. they just seem to under perform in melee and i usually play human warriors

the END stat may not be inline because agility is pretty high on alot of races. i mean almost everything used has 23 agility.

[NiteHawk]

i like the fantasy aspect of games, but yeah bringing every stat inline isn't easy. and the lower the level cap the harder it is. i mean i liked horc and ling when i started testing characters, now i like elves /shrug. first for me im not really an elf guy lol. i like gnomes humans and dwarves, and dont really value them very well on this game atm. which is exciting.

humans for instance are supposed to be average across the board. but the average of whats used is like 21str 22agi 19end 18int 18wis x. looks like a really smart saurian lol. they just seem to under perform in melee and i usually play human warriors

the END stat may not be inline because agility is pretty high on alot of races. i mean almost everything used has 23 agility.

I think the END needs to have a small tweak as well based on stats, but we'll see about that anyways.

[daedroth]

Quick Question. If you log off while under attack (npc/player), does that mean your character is locked in game until your dead (since every time you are attacked the combat timer would start again)?

[NiteHawk]

Quick Question. If you log off while under attack (npc/player), does that mean your character is locked in game until your dead (since every time you are attacked the combat timer would start again)?

Yeah, welcome to online gaming. I understand it can be a pain sometimes, but this way is far better then the other way. At least try to get safe.

One mob won't really keep you online because often their attacks are around 10s. So there is a high chance you will log off. If there are 3-4 mobs though I highly doubt you will survive and you will have to relog the character (you can login a character that is pending logout with no issues) and move it at least to a square with less monsters or none.

And if you die: Most games don't care about your RL situation, shit happens, pretty much.

[Styx]

Dumb question, if the ling basicly by the numbers will not win then cause str of others is greater then what class is good for them? Just looks obvious only make half horc cause it will win, or chanter to kill half orc, or is this more intended for the pve section or role play.

Tested my druid, still hits just was all blah seeing it drop

[NiteHawk]

Tested my druid, still hits just was all blah seeing it drop

The druid stats from current (not the changes I am talking about above) have exactly the same amount of AGI in morph after the calculation is done. If anything they actually hit slightly more.

Dumb question, if the ling basicly by the numbers will not win then cause str of others is greater then what class is good for them? Just looks obvious only make half horc cause it will win, or chanter to kill half orc, or is this more intended for the pve section or role play.

I'm not sure why you are saying this. Right now half the people are yelling that lings are too strong, the other half yell that half orcs are too strong. Just because I said HO's should have the edge, doesn't mean that they will always die against a HO. You guys seem to think when I say a race should be better at certain things, that I am saying it is 100% of the time.

The question could be flipped around too. Do you think lings should be able to kill magic casters when they are using high wisdom? HOs certainly can't take on a spell caster right now in most cases. They die 90% of the time. At least right now lings still have a nice chance against a HO and I don't think they are that far off.

[NiteHawk]

For strength bonuses as well I'm also wondering if I should increase the druid multiplier by about 50% and decrease the in morph by 50%, so that weapon stat losses don't get effected by much. Right now losing -1 min is like losing -2 min in morph cause it's double damage so it does HURT.


Quick example would be in cat form currently, just to show how the STR works.:

I attack for 100 damage out of morph, and 200 damage in morph.

New value

I attack for 150 damage out of morph, and 200 damage in morph.
or
I attack for 175 damage out of morph, and 200 damage in morph.



Not sure what one is best, so posting here for ideas. I think it would be a good change though. 50% would mean that losing -1min for example would be like losing -1.5min, and 75% would be -1 to -1.25. Maybe something in the middle though, like 60 or 65%.


The new values for STR would have to be divided on the previous page but ultimate would be the same with the new changes I have talked about.
I.E. you might only gain 10 or 5 str instead of the massive amount it is now