MR Poll

What system should we go with for MR? (Read below)

Poll ended at Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:08 pm

Number 1
0
No votes
Number 2
12
46%
Number 3
14
54%
 
Total votes: 26
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NiteHawk
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MR Poll

Postby NiteHawk » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:08 pm

MR is a bit over the top right now, at it's lowest, against 23 int vs HO w/ 10 wisdom you only have 13% chance to unaffect. I do agree that a HO should die in most cases, but right now they do it with such ease there is no challenge. The maximum is 75.5% which is 23int character vs 23 wisdom gnome sorc.
So the range right now is 13% to 75%. A middle ground right now lets say is a goblin with 17 wisdom, they get 48% chance.

I'm not gonna get crazy with formulas here, but in physical combat the base is 40% normally but 55% in when you are attacking a monster. It is -2/2% per agi lower/higher, and classes can have a dodge/hitrate modifier. Obviously though you also have armor on top of this, which actually works very well at negating a lot of damage actively, and some passively.

When comparing spell classes to heavy dps physical classes, spell classes do less damage as a whole (ignoring the MR right now.). It must also be noted that YOU NEED WISDOM TO HAVE MR. Simply having a class and race doesn't give you amazing MR.

There are a couple things we can do though:

1. Increase the minimum to around 30%-35%, lower the maximum to around 70%. Middle classes would probably sit around 45-55% with moderate wisdom (16-18). Adjust the class/race MR slightly to reflect.


2. Redo the formula completely and make it similar to how AGI vs AGI works. Have a base, then it would be INT vs WIS for it. For example, ignoring class/race bonuses, let us say the base is 60%. Each point difference could be lets say 3%, and you add +3 to the wisdom calculation. EXAMPLE TIME:
-Gnome Sorc 23 int vs HO 12 wisdom.... 23-(12+3)=8.. Now we multiply the point difference modifier, which would be 8*3=24%... So it is 60% MINUS 24%.. He will have a resistance of 36%.
-Gnome Sorc 23 int vs Ling 20 wisdom.... 23-(20+3)=0... 0*3=0... Resistance is 60-0)=60%
-Gnome Sorc 23 int vs Goblin 17 wisdom.... 23-(17+3)=3...3*3=9... Resistance is 60-9=51%
-Gnome Sorc 23 int vs HO 10 wisdom.... 23-(10+3)=10...10*3=30... Resistance is 60-30=30%
-Gnome Sorc 23 int vs Gnome 23 wisdom.... 23-(23+3)=-3... -3*3=9... Resistance is 60-9)=69%

What about lesser sorcs:
-Elf Sorc 21 int vs Goblin 17 wisdom.... 21-(17+3)=1...1*3=3... Resistance is 60-3=57%
-Elf Sorc 21 int vs HO 10 wisdom.... 21-(10+3)=8...8*3=24... Resistance is 60-24=36%
-Elf Sorc 21 int vs Gnome 23 wisdom.... 21-(23+3)=-5... -5*3=15... Resistance is 60-15)=75%

Something like that, but you can see how it works similar to AGI vs AGI instead. I am even thinking we can remove racial bonuses and leave class bonuses only, as the numbers here reflect pretty OK and there would be less guess work and less balance issues. I would probably add 5% more resistances for all to keep the weapon resist, which is about 5% more with a OAD staff weapon. Low wisdom races might be okay in certain situations as long as they pull some stats into wisdom.


3. Make it so Int only does damage/fizzle/duration, but has nothing to do with MR. The only thing that would reflect MR would be the class/race/wisdom. It would be a set value then.. For example:
Half Orc Knight with 10 wisdom might be 34% resistance.
Half Orc Slayer with 10 wisdom might be 30% resistance.
Gnome Sorceror with 22 wisdom might have 67% resistance.
Elf Sorc with 22 wisdom might have 65% resistance.
Gnome Sorceror with 23 wisdom might have 70% resistance.
Gnome Sorceror with 10 wisdom might have 38% resistance.

Kind of like that, purely example and was brought up. So ANY spell incoming on you only checks that. This would mean that someone with 10int would pierce through you the same as someone with 23int, BUT obviously the damage would be far lower anyways so might be OK. This way however I would keep both class/race modifiers. Weapon could still effect resistance, but only weapon itself and for a small amount. This does make elves/etc a little more viable but I'm wondering if its pushing too extreme or not.

--------


For me, I prefer to change it for sure, I like 2 the most, but 3. could work as well, but it would be different though. None of the formulas here or suggestions are set in stone, only made for examples.

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Styx
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Re: MR Poll

Postby Styx » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:19 pm

Question if I have a max orc wis barb, shouldn't it be good enough to kill a sorc so I can have my ownage?

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Re: MR Poll

Postby Folder » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:49 pm

@Styx It should be good enough to have a chance, but it should be an unlikely chance. If a 14 wis orc is anywhere near likely to beat a sorc then a 20 wis DE is going to rip sorcs apart.

Sorcs are good at killing low wis, yes perhaps too good. But they are not at all good at killing high wis. Looking at these numbers when we have sorcs fighting high wis we're looking at 60-75% resist rate. That's higher than any melee miss rate will be. IMO sorcs do need to hit more simply because they hit for less with each attack.

I think upping the base resist is fine, but if we overboard with it sorcs will quickly be shelved as they simply do not put out the damge numbers a ninja/slayer/zerker does. Point is sorcs need to somewhat reliably eat low wis since they are pretty much garbage when fighting high wis. I like that aspect of them tbh, maybe others prefer them just doing moderate damage all the time but I feel the basic idea of high damage to low wis and low damage to high wis is fine.

If it turns into moderate damage on low wis and low damage on high wis then they are more buffbots than real dps. #2 is my pick out of these but I do caution against a huge change.
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NiteHawk
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Re: MR Poll

Postby NiteHawk » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:37 pm

Folder wrote:@Styx It should be good enough to have a chance, but it should be an unlikely chance. If a 14 wis orc is anywhere near likely to beat a sorc then a 20 wis DE is going to rip sorcs apart.

Sorcs are good at killing low wis, yes perhaps too good. But they are not at all good at killing high wis. Looking at these numbers when we have sorcs fighting high wis we're looking at 60-75% resist rate. That's higher than any melee miss rate will be. IMO sorcs do need to hit more simply because they hit for less with each attack.

I think upping the base resist is fine, but if we overboard with it sorcs will quickly be shelved as they simply do not put out the damge numbers a ninja/slayer/zerker does. Point is sorcs need to somewhat reliably eat low wis since they are pretty much garbage when fighting high wis. I like that aspect of them tbh, maybe others prefer them just doing moderate damage all the time but I feel the basic idea of high damage to low wis and low damage to high wis is fine.

If it turns into moderate damage on low wis and low damage on high wis then they are more buffbots than real dps. #2 is my pick out of these but I do caution against a huge change.


Yeah. I mean max right now is about 75% as I said. but I think this can be lower and then the min be higher. 30% was just an example, it might be lower with 10 wis still. Right now the range is from 13-70% and thats WITH 23int. when you have 20 int it becomes even worse when fighting high wisdom classes by a large amount. That's why I was wondering about option 3. on that matter.

Max could be 70% or 65% with highest MR but that might be too low for 23 wis, it's really tough to say. Once we have a path I can post more details on the change and suggestions for it.

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Folder
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Re: MR Poll

Postby Folder » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:06 pm

Right, 20 int sorcs need to be viable imo because people like humans and lings for them. It's fine for 23 int gnomes to be the best casters, but it can't be the only determination.

Basically just tighten up the curve a little on both ends. I really think that's all that needs doing. You obviously have a few methods of getting there but that's the reasonable goal imo.
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daedroth
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Re: MR Poll

Postby daedroth » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:12 pm

PS. I think Styx was kidding there folks :p
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Folder
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Re: MR Poll

Postby Folder » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:45 pm

Maybe, doesn't change my answer though :P.
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Terron
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Re: MR Poll

Postby Terron » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:45 pm

i picked 3, but would prefer a variant of #2. i feel int already pierces with damage and fizzle rate only reason i picked 3 tbh. leaving int as any factor other than damage just makes it so everyone wants gnome for power elf for dodge. i agree that 20+ int should be reasonable build

in any case a mage should hit a half orc a max of around 60% and a minimum of 50% and only that often because of the enormous HP, or bring it 100% inline with agility and make horcs put in wis points or get raped. with a max of a 71% hit rate versus 10 wis (same as 24 agi ling cav vs 10 agility)mage would get the 5% with the oad staff or whatever and be at 69% hit rate( 23 int).
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Styx
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Re: MR Poll

Postby Styx » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:10 pm

Oh geez only one recognizes sarcasm. Lol, orc is supposed to be chanter food

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Re: MR Poll

Postby Terron » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:49 pm

“we often find obstacles and burdens in our way. We may
complain out loud while we walk around them if we choose, or we can lift them and find
out what they mean. Disappointment is usually the price of laziness.” -the Wise King -The Stone in the Road

:popcorn:
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants


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