MR Changes

[NiteHawk]

Yeh, when the AGL changes, give gnomes an extra AGL point Small and dodge they become!

This could help... though id probably still want to change away from gnome if i possible... The other option is to raise their racial profile to allow 23 int and 23 wis (before the +1).... making them even more into a "glass cannon" race (i mean Horcs have 24 str so why not have a race with really high int/wis... esp if they are pansys who fall over and die easily).... still probably wouldnt choose em again tho

Adding wisdom would overshadow and make elementals useless, int though might be a thing now for them.

[anthriel]

Adding wisdom would overshadow and make elementals useless, int though might be a thing now for them.

I disagree that Gnomes with 23 wis would make Elementals useless... I think Eles would still be the race of choice over gnomes for both sorcs/necros and Druids purely because of their +3END leading to so much higher survivability (esp in group fights and OAD parties which is the majority of end game activity).... There at least there would be a more equivalent trade for players to consider (rather than the current obvious choice for Ele).. In fact I'd probably suggest the addition of Elementals disrupted the previous spellcaster norm of having to accept that high int/wis came at cost of HP... Meaning now by choosing Elementals you can have your cake and eat it (esp in the case of Druids where morph more than adequately covers the Str/Agi weakness of the Ele race)

[NiteHawk]

Honestly talking about END I feel that the lowest END should probably be 18 and not 17. It's a bit tough to make both END points matter but also having that huge 17 end to 23 end gap thats tough to balance. For example Gnomes would be +1 end and +1 int. Still lower on the scale but yeah. Though this could overshadow somewhat and I haven't put much checking into other races at the moment for it. Toppled with the AGI potential changes that would probably help dodge a bit (more tweaks than a major change) might help overall.

[Tucker]

Honestly talking about END I feel that the lowest END should probably be 18 and not 17. It's a bit tough to make both END points matter but also having that huge 17 end to 23 end gap thats tough to balance. For example Gnomes would be +1 end and +1 int. Still lower on the scale but yeah. Though this could overshadow somewhat and I haven't put much checking into other races at the moment for it. Toppled with the AGI potential changes that would probably help dodge a bit (more tweaks than a major change) might help overall.

Absolutely. The only two races that hits are gnomes and lings and I think both are seriously overshadowed by better races for virtually every possible class and rarely used to much success. Both gnomes and lings will benefit more than other classes from the agi change but +1 end to each would make them both viable I think without making either overpowered.

[daedroth]

This will be great when I start to use my hairy footed plump alts!
So tender and delicious.
I have one gnome too, not plump, not tasty, scrawny and stringy.

[anthriel]

Honestly talking about END I feel that the lowest END should probably be 18 and not 17. It's a bit tough to make both END points matter but also having that huge 17 end to 23 end gap thats tough to balance. For example Gnomes would be +1 end and +1 int. Still lower on the scale but yeah. Though this could overshadow somewhat and I haven't put much checking into other races at the moment for it. Toppled with the AGI potential changes that would probably help dodge a bit (more tweaks than a major change) might help overall.

Absolutely. The only two races that hits are gnomes and lings and I think both are seriously overshadowed by better races for virtually every possible class and rarely used to much success. Both gnomes and lings will benefit more than other classes from the agi change but +1 end to each would make them both viable I think without making either overpowered.

I would love to see Lings and Gnomes get a much needed +1 END boost to get them more viable... But I do wonder if doing so might unbalance or make some other races useless (eg Elf - which I mainly see used for casters or bards). For example right now there is an Agi/End trade off between Elf and Ling when making a bard ... This would be removed in favour of Lings if they get +1 End. Similarly with sorcs/necros, Elf benefits over Gnome with +1 End and +1 Agi... If you made the Gnomes equal to Elves in End, it might mean you could take Gnome and +1 Agi to finish up with a caster that overshadows the best possible Elf one.

Basically Gnomes do need a fix of some sort to make them more viable... But if their base End is what is being tinkered with, then I think the 18 End races will probably also need to be looked at to ensure they are still viable. This is why I suggested upping Gnome INT/WIS instead... It's much easier to balance Gnome verses Ele and see it as an Int&Agi vs End tradeoff for same Wis (due to the relative importance of End). However if NH is willing to rebalance all the 17&18 End races then I do think upping Gnome and Ling End would definitely make them more playable.

[Tucker]

This is why I suggested upping Gnome INT/WIS instead... It's much easier to balance Gnome verses Ele and see it as an Int&Agi vs End tradeoff for same Wis (due to the relative importance of End). However if NH is willing to rebalance all the 17&18 End races then I do think upping Gnome and Ling End would definitely make them more playable.

Balancing with Wis would literally only help the class be a better Elder though. It would be virtually meaningless to every other potential gnome class (necro, priest, chanter, pally?). That also would make them way too strong as elders.

It would definitely require a re-balance for gnomes and likely for lings but I doubt it would have to be too big. For Gnomes you could maybe just lower their usable stats by 3-4 (including the one that would go toward the extra end point). For lings maybe lower usable points by 2-3 (including the extra end point).

Gnomes, Humans, and Lings are definitely the worst classes in my eyes right now and this would help two of them for sure - there will inevitably be some balance damage to the classes that Gnomes or Lings might replace but that could be balanced by some slight buffs down the line to races that fall by the wayside I think.

I dunno what the fuck to do with humans tbh maybe just give them even more usable stats and some passive buffs or something odd. In practice the class could make excellent Paladins but there are so many better races for pally's when compared to them.

[Lateralus]

I think giving them 18 end maybe overshadows other races a bit?

Don't get me wrong I agree halflings gnome and human could use some love but idk if end is the way to go.

I could see + int on gnomes they are rather small and dodgy maybe an agi? Idk

I think halflings will already get a buff from agi changes maybe give them a few more pool stats? Maybe race based dodge?

Human might be cool to give them two +1s
Say for 5 pool points you could have a +2?


Idk just kinda tossing ideas out

[JadeFalcon]

I agree with Lat - AGI is the way to go, not END.

Also, can they be boosted by non stat buffs, like greater MR, better Pot timeout, etc.?

[daedroth]

I did think, but what about the 18 END races... then the 19 END races... then the...
Tricky one eh

Humans: Maybe allow them two +1's or as Lat suggested a +2?
Gnomes/Ling: +1 AGL or Flat +% to dodge.