Never Ending Shard Hunt

[daedroth]

Not so sure about the windows of attack still (I think some kind of warning system would be better) :p

Cool down between raids/thefts:
"Due to a recent raid/robbery security has been heightened to such an extent that it is impossible to raid/rob this guild at this time. Best to wait until things quieten down."
Could be based on guild account holders (if you want to be gentle with smaller clans). Fixed time / account holders = Next available raiding time (maybe throw in a bit of randomness).

[NiteHawk]

I totally want a banner thing!
Even for bragging purposes, imagine clan X capturing and ransoming clan Y banner! Or dumping it the garbage!

Should be an item basically proving the defeat of the enemy clan at its enemies, so a white item with a description like this:

"On September 15th 2017, the glorious forces of clan X captured this flag from their unworthy foe of clan Y. Eternal shame for them".


We could setup a competition for "most flags captured"

That's a possibility too. The flag if we go that route is destroyed and will drop an item, pretty much an NPC with 100% drop rate of the same name.

Not so sure about the windows of attack still (I think some kind of warning system would be better) :p

Cool down between raids/thefts:
"Due to a recent raid/robbery security has been heightened to such an extent that it is impossible to raid/rob this guild at this time. Best to wait until things quieten down."
Could be based on guild account holders (if you want to be gentle with smaller clans). Fixed time / account holders = Next available raiding time (maybe throw in a bit of randomness).

If there is cooldowns there probably has to be a warning once the thief picks the lock (not during pick locking, when the raid has actually started) otherwise large guilds will use extra guilds to make their guilds immune by raiding themselves. The picklock tools shouldn't be super expensive but also not cheap either. A good value to not raid for no reason or to grief smaller guilds.

The cooldown probably needs to be longer than shorter though. 4-8 hours probably. No one wants to be on constant defend, that would be a pain in the ass and stressful to deal with.. So the cooldown is a good idea.


++

I'm still not sure if I'll add the shrines too as a short term boost. It would be something like this atm:
Area Capture System - Capture areas for guild gold bonuses. 2% of npc gold killed here goes towards the holder. Shorter timers to capture again, so can switch a couple times a day. Max 2-3 areas per guild.
City Capture System - Similar to area capturing (Same system just different timers and bonuses really.) Capture cities for city bonuses. 2% of gold spent goes to the guild for example, additional stores, etc. 24 hour timer before someone else can capture again. Max 1 city per guild.
Guild Wars System - The whole raiding guild halls for global shards and potentially guild gold. Global shards are long term but obviously can be stolen. Global shards will grant unique bonuses such as small HP gains, additional minor stat boosts (Let's say 0.5 AGI for example) towards the whole guild. Shards of same values are not stackable. Nothing game breaking, but enough to warrant them being very useful.
Shrine System - Shards that grant XP/Gold bonuses. Durations are short term and stack up to X amount. Not raidable.

++++

The shrine and guild war system might be too similar though and we might want to stick with one overall system for that and make global shards that also give XP/Gold bonuses. Either or works for me.

[anthriel]

Liking these ideas. Interesting thought re Terron's idea about guild raider numbers being only equivalent to the number of logged lvl 25 defenders online is that it would almost entirely cease the practice of idlers just leaving their 25ers logged somewhere (albeit they will just probably idle on leveling crits instead lol)

As for guild vault being raised, I like the fact that there could be banners or prizes (eg shards) etc to be won/stolen from raids. Probably wouldn't want any OAD items or guild gold being lost/stolen tho cos there is enough drama about the division/ownership of those things that it could cause a lot of ppl to quit from guild politics drama (eg Player X just got kicked or quit guild A and joins guild B and walks his new guild through his old guilds vault traps etc to clean out all guild A's vaulted OADs and gold so he can take a big cut of loot etc... Then guild B bullies player X on forums and in game etc etc and player X eventually quits... Or worse player X is a staffer and corruption accusations start flying etc)... Therefore being solely able to raid things from guilds that cannot benefit a single player (eg shards rather than items or gold) would be best imo.

[daedroth]

... If there is cooldowns there probably has to be a warning once the thief picks the lock (not during pick locking, when the raid has actually started) otherwise large guilds will use extra guilds to make their guilds immune by raiding themselves ...

How nefarious! Sadly I believe that would get done.

Eh... a little idea...

Test Run:
Would there be a way to "test run" your defences? As in a guild able to try out its own defences (for free or minor charge)... Mixed on this idea though tbh.

[Terron]

I am not sure what you mean by 10% shards HP. If they raid for the shard wouldn't they take it anyways?


You prob should be able to hide and lockpick with a very low fail chance that will alert the room. Kind of like stealing but a lower chance to fail depending on INT.

I'm not sure about the banner or having the vault system be picked too. Further needing brigands to do it. It would make protecting handy too, but either or can work here. NPCs if any, should have to be defeated to proceed. So there has to be a max limit on how many NPCs you can add, on the fewer count too.

i actually envisioned the thief just going to the entrance of an enemy guild and the dungeon entrance be there aswell. I dont think there should be an alert for the picking unless its an extremely expensive upgrade with a low chance of going off. i think the guild doors should be healable and alerts if any should only pop up to players inside the guild house. no alerts promotes active checking.

basically enemies cant enter your guild hall, but once your "entrance" is picked players can just type the command "enter dungeon" to enter the raid. similar to "board" when leaving nub island. i suggested the guilds be placed in pk zones outside of cities because guilds are never normally in the center of town always at the edge or a little ways away. although using the edge of town aspect, each town could offer different bonuses to the guild. max npc buff, better boss selection, tougher doors etc.

the vault itself doesn't need picked its an oad basically. pick entrance, sprawl dungeon slay npcs, find boss here, banner behind that, once banner is destroyed or time is up, its over. i would say shorter times the better tbh i think 20 minutes +1 minute for each added int point on thief, gnome 23 int would be 33 minutes. i think every hour the raid timer should reset, the goal is dozens of raids per day.

as for the 10% of the shards hp/time. im unsure how often shards will drop be that if they drop very often they can outright be destroyed, if they drop really rare it may not be fair, especially to small guilds, if they get destroyed or stolen in 1 raid. thing is im hoping for dozens of raids per day so its a constant thing.

the system i envision allows for multiple raids everyday, and tactical opportunities at that. each guild would have to designate guild watchers while oading etc.

with this system in place guilds wont be keeping alot of gold. it will be used up with upkeep costs and upgrades. and repurchasing npcs and bosses. imo i think they should remain dead if killed. so the thief that picks the lock isnt getting much with 4% just a congrats basically. the thief is technically taking all the risk in the beginning picking the door, enemies may just group up walk outside and smash you lol.

[NiteHawk]

i actually envisioned the thief just going to the entrance of an enemy guild and the dungeon entrance be there aswell. I dont think there should be an alert for the picking unless its an extremely expensive upgrade with a low chance of going off. i think the guild doors should be healable and alerts if any should only pop up to players inside the guild house. no alerts promotes active checking.

I don't know about being able to raid a house without 'any' warnings though. Maybe a warning once they are actually INSIDE rather then breaking the lock, maybe it's a purchasable upgrade. Actively checking and being on guard would work if we had the numbers, I don't think it would work so well until our numbers actually go up. The warning doesn't have to be at start as I said, could be half way, etc etc. But yeah the guild hall and dungeon would be at the same place.

as for the 10% of the shards hp/time. im unsure how often shards will drop be that if they drop very often they can outright be destroyed, if they drop really rare it may not be fair, especially to small guilds, if they get destroyed or stolen in 1 raid. thing is im hoping for dozens of raids per day so its a constant thing.

the system i envision allows for multiple raids everyday, and tactical opportunities at that. each guild would have to designate guild watchers while oading etc.

I think that would hurt i they have to constantly watch atm though, as I said before. Alot of guilds already struggle to do some of the OADs, it would work if the game becomes more popular but we might wanna focus on ensuring they now don't need 7 people in total to run an oad (I.E. 6 people running the oad and 1 person sitting in the guild hall.) I also don't think sitting around doing nothing is good gameplay, it's a bit too 'realistic' in a sense to have to guard all the time.

For example, a lot of OADs use to be 6 to 8 hours and alot of people actually didn't like it. They had to constantly check and I think it ends up being stressful to them. I think it's a good idea on paper if you have a lot of people, but on design it is good to start but then people get sick of always having to check. Same with OADs that take 2-3h, good on paper thinking people will constantly do stuff, but ended up with OADs never being run because they were a pain to do. I assume this would be the same thing if people had to guard all day doing nothing, boring job, probably needs to be a warning at some point in the raid. I do agree raids should be more often then not, but maybe 2-3 hours to reset instead.

For the shards, I was originally basing it off time. I.E. 30 days and it expires. Captured by others obviously. However Dae came up with a cool idea, where shards have HP bars. The more players onilne, the faster the HP drains. A smaller guild will obviously have a shard longer if they are able to defend long eonugh. I.E. a shard has 200k HP. 1HP per minute is drained per guild online. That is 1.4k HP per person for a full day. Let's say on average a larger guild has 8 players online at any given time (5 players at low times, 12 players at peek times.). so 11.2k HP is used per day. This means the shards would break around 18 days. If a guild with half the members (4 average) has it, then it would be 36 days. Values and numbers can be adjusted and there needs to be a minimum loss so that a dead guild doesn't hold a shard forever (Let's say no matter what you lose 3-4k HP on the shard minimum.).

I also talked about shards effects also reducing (to a minimum) too. For example, if a shard gives 25HP bonus, each person online reduces the bonus by 4% (Up to 60% reduction, so 40% eff). So 12 people online means the shard only works at 52% efficiency, so they would get 13HP bonus per person online. If there was only 4 people online, they would get 84% efficiency, so 21HP bonus.

I think both of these combined would help smaller guilds out and makes larger guilds work more, which it probably should.


Anyways, it's a pretty good system you've come up with, little things to work out but generally I think it will work pretty well and should be good fun.


Edit: Now though that I think about it the actual shard HP bar might have to do with total accounts. Otherwise we might have players logging off to prevent shard decay, that would be pretty bad IMO. We want people to stay online. Obviously it has to be based on something different then. Let's say per guild member account is 1HP per hour. So 24HP per account. If you had 20 accounts, its 480HP gone per day. so Shards would probably have to have HP around 15k to 20k HP for a average size guild for it to last around a month. The actual bonus a player gets can still be based on guild players online though.

[JadeFalcon]

(just a tiny note, can we call it "Ember shard"? Just to stay consistent with the name and lore)

[Terron]

yeah i said raid would be announced globally to everyone when a thief picked the lock. like DRAGON RIDER GUILD IS UNDER ATTACK!! or something.

the efficiency thing is flawed lol "hey log off so i can win this koth easier" and vets/sharers using training guilds to help their training along. i think the efficiency thing would apply well to "town capture values" but not for guild raids. guild raids need to be simple. guild door, lockpick, repair door, buy npcs, attack, defend, done.

shards should just have a raid life. if raided (successfully) 3x they die, or 5 for better ones, maybe even 12 raid life for a purple shard. something like this.

smaller guilds are likely to be raided more often, however their numbers are lower, makes it easier to manage your vault boss not to die. a clan of 1 would probably need to be raided 3 or 4 times in order for 1 attacker to find and kill a vault boss, and destroy the banner. smaller guilds are also much more likely to apply themselves to raiding, since they cant compete for keys/oads. larger guilds will use it as a more direct approach "we raped your face today" but it will be more seldom and likely coincide between oads.

[NiteHawk]

the efficiency thing is flawed lol "hey log off so i can win this koth easier" and vets/sharers using training guilds to help their training along. i think the efficiency thing would apply well to "town capture values" but not for guild raids. guild raids need to be simple. guild door, lockpick, repair door, buy npcs, attack, defend, done.

Bonuses wouldn't work in most normal events anyways. But it can also be based on the highest number of users in the hour. So it wouldn't be like you can log off and it suddenly gives you more HP/etc automatically.

shards should just have a raid life. if raided (successfully) 3x they die, or 5 for better ones, maybe even 12 raid life for a purple shard. something like this.

smaller guilds are likely to be raided more often, however their numbers are lower, makes it easier to manage your vault boss not to die. a clan of 1 would probably need to be raided 3 or 4 times in order for 1 attacker to find and kill a vault boss, and destroy the banner. smaller guilds are also much more likely to apply themselves to raiding, since they cant compete for keys/oads. larger guilds will use it as a more direct approach "we raped your face today" but it will be more seldom and likely coincide between oads.

Would be a downer to raid and you were the last raider aka the shard breaks on you though.

I would assume similar to the above, it would be highest number of guild users in that hour or something like that to prevent defenders simply logging off which would be silly.

[Terron]

thats why i put a minimum cap of attackers at 1, if defender logs on you its just a free obliteration lol. the 1 attacker would map out the entire area, kill every npc, and wound boss all in 1 trip. the odds are in the defenders favor it should remain that way so no-one would log.
remember you join guilds to be an active part of the clans history. logging wont make your friends happy.

i dont think shards that are currently set in a guild should be able to be stolen at all. i think successful raids should remove shards from their clan storage as rewards not steal the current. the current shards would just deteriorate over a period of time or by failing defending your banner repeatedly. hence the raid life idea wouldn't screw over a raider at all.

the more complicated the raid system ends up, the less successful it will be. you can attest that by logging on dozens of MMO's and look for yourself.