Never Ending Shard Hunt

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3120
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby NiteHawk » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:20 am

The HP system is a good idea and I will probably use it. I like it as it makes larger guilds work a bit more which is good in any system. For guild wars though it would have to be ALOT of HP. If we base it off 30d or 90d originally, then the shard needs to expire at that time with a average amount of members. I.E.
8 member online AVERAGE is the base at any given time (Let's say.).. And you want the shard to -1HP every minute. SO:

A shard will lose about 11,520HP per day at that average. If you want a 30D shard then 345,600HP.

This means smaller guilds if they manage to hold the shard, the shard will last longer. A guild with 4 members online average would be 60D. A guild with 2 members online is 120D. Obviously they probably won't hold a shard very long with only 2 members though.


For the guild war system, the rooms themselves won't be damaged, but if someone breaks down a door you'd have to repair the door, yeah. Same with dead NPCs. There will be an easy way to 'repair all' though.



Clan gold can get sacked (# * number of enemy that make it through, maybe a percentage - but to a maximum number).


Why use guild gold vaults then? People won't store gold in guilds anymore and will simply make a account that handles the gold and give access to all leaders. If there is a lossless way people will do it.

User avatar
daedroth
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby daedroth » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:17 am

NiteHawk wrote: ... Why use guild gold vaults then? People won't store gold in guilds anymore and will simply make a account that handles the gold and give access to all leaders. If there is a lossless way people will do it.

Then make Guild Bank separate totally. As in you can only get gold into the clan guild through clan tax rate. That way the gold would only be use-able for guild stuff and you could only get gold through the guild tax so there would be no way to avoid gold loss.
If there is no money in the guild then the guild will have no bonuses (no rooms, no shard etc). Guild house is de-activated.

Options:
No Guild house (or a de-activated one due to no money in the guild bank), you cannot raid another guild until guild is up and running.
You need a room to hold raid money (you can only get money from a raid if you have this room).
Raid gold goes to guild bank, because it is "guild gold" which is un-usable for anything other than guild stuff.
You can put gold into the guild bank, but there is a conversion fee.
You can take gold out of the guild bank, but... you guessed it, there is a conversion fee.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3120
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby NiteHawk » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:25 am

daedroth wrote:
NiteHawk wrote: ... Why use guild gold vaults then? People won't store gold in guilds anymore and will simply make a account that handles the gold and give access to all leaders. If there is a lossless way people will do it.

Then make Guild Bank separate totally. As in you can only get gold into the clan guild through clan tax rate. That way the gold would only be use-able for guild stuff and you could only get gold through the guild tax so there would be no way to avoid gold loss.
If there is no money in the guild then the guild will have no bonuses (no rooms, no shard etc). Guild house is de-activated.

Options:
No Guild house (or a de-activated one due to no money in the guild bank), you cannot raid another guild until guild is up and running.
You need a room to hold raid money (you can only get money from a raid if you have this room).
Raid gold goes to guild bank, because it is "guild gold" which is un-usable for anything other than guild stuff.
You can put gold into the guild bank, but there is a conversion fee.
You can take gold out of the guild bank, but... you guessed it, there is a conversion fee.


Possibly, maybe when there is more of a use of gold yeah.

Terron
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby Terron » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:01 am

i like most of this the bonuses the hp thing etc. dont really like the "Set" times for raiding guilds. makes it 100% pointless. why do you need npc monsters and doors if you set it up for when u have 17 members online. how many times do you think a guild of 5 is going to run in and commit suicide. a small guild wont even hold a shard either , 3 slayers would end that. the npcs would have to be ktp and smash 800s or a large guild will just run em right over. let alone you can just make a surrogate guild with a defend time before the real guilds time, then hop the active members and gold over to the surrogate after its defend time is up then hop back and use a good shard for 6 days of free use.

id prefer a wager system.
guild A representative bets 50k and these 2 shards saying they can beat your dungeon with X members.
guild B representative agrees to the deal with 50k and these 2 shards on the line with X members.

each guild can set up a dungeon and staff an build a guild war portal square. where clan rep can type the command to accept a challenge and set the game in motion.

basically guild A's rep types /challenge guild name , wager 50,000 gold 2 shard of power , characters 6(must be a founder/chairman)

Guild B's rep can type /accept

both teams are teleported to the dungeon when team leaders type /begin challenge

smaller guilds would just have smaller bets and probably less characters for awhile, but can still participate.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

User avatar
daedroth
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby daedroth » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:59 pm

More Thoughts:

De-Activated Guild house costs half the cost to buy a guild house to re-activate.
The amount of raided gold you can get is determined by the amount of accounts in clan and how many enemy clan lived (max of 6).
Repeat raids in a set period of time nets you dminishing returns.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

User avatar
daedroth
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby daedroth » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:34 am

More More Thoughts:

Remove the window of time to raid.
Introduce a HP cost to the shard and a gold cost based on each person sent on the raid. Maybe make it so that you get "warped in" and this costs.

Possible Problems:
Making the reward to raid potentially better than the costs to raid:
The gold gain from raiding is based on the amount people accounts in the Guild being raided (so it may not be worth raiding a small clan if you are a large clan) and the # of raiders left at the end.
Shard can be looted (but it loses a HEAP of HP; this could be based on # of account of raided guild vs # of account of the raiding guild and/or make it so that the HP recovered is based on # of raiders left). Could even make it like the picking up of a scale. Obviously yet again, it would need to be tilted so that large clans raiding small clans get less reward (cost could outweigh the reward if you send too many people) than a small clan raiding a large clan.
Off course a small clan raiding a large clan should be in trouble (too much defences).
This would potentially mean you will be better off or worse off than before you started (as a raider), especially if you are a large clan raiding a small clan.
However if that was to be done this way, there should be some kind of message before you start a raid "this guild is substantially smaller than your guild", "this guild is slightly larger than your guild", some kind of indicator to give you a general idea of the size difference between the guilds ("mine is bigger than yours" pun potential here).
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3120
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:31 am

Terron wrote:i like most of this the bonuses the hp thing etc. dont really like the "Set" times for raiding guilds. makes it 100% pointless. why do you need npc monsters and doors if you set it up for when u have 17 members online. how many times do you think a guild of 5 is going to run in and commit suicide. a small guild wont even hold a shard either , 3 slayers would end that. the npcs would have to be ktp and smash 800s or a large guild will just run em right over. let alone you can just make a surrogate guild with a defend time before the real guilds time, then hop the active members and gold over to the surrogate after its defend time is up then hop back and use a good shard for 6 days of free use.

id prefer a wager system.
guild A representative bets 50k and these 2 shards saying they can beat your dungeon with X members.
guild B representative agrees to the deal with 50k and these 2 shards on the line with X members.

each guild can set up a dungeon and staff an build a guild war portal square. where clan rep can type the command to accept a challenge and set the game in motion.

basically guild A's rep types /challenge guild name , wager 50,000 gold 2 shard of power , characters 6(must be a founder/chairman)

Guild B's rep can type /accept

both teams are teleported to the dungeon when team leaders type /begin challenge

smaller guilds would just have smaller bets and probably less characters for awhile, but can still participate.


I don't see why guilds would accept any fights from anyone bigger than them. I also don't see why larger guilds would even bother risking their global shards when they're full up. No one would fight often and if you have the maximum global shards which will probably be a count of three, you wouldn't fight unless you're lacking shards or know you're going to win. But then the people you are fighting are mostly full up on shards, thus they wouldn't accept.

let alone you can just make a surrogate guild with a defend time before the real guilds time, then hop the active members and gold over to the surrogate after its defend time is up then hop back and use a good shard for 6 days of free use.


I don't really understand what this means exactly. Why would they make a surrogate guild in this scenario? Are you thinking actual defenders can't defend their keep? They'll be able to defend without hopping though. I honestly don't really think gold should be used as a 'steal' and it should only be based on global shards with the set time system. Otherwise smaller guilds would just be over-run. With shards only you'd at least prevent larger guilds from doing it constantly as they'd probably have full shards, but would expect to be attacked themselves. Doesn't mean smaller guilds couldn't band up, etc. There could be though a gold fee to 'enter' the raid based on your guild size vs their guild size like dae stated. There also could be a maximum raid amount per guild. Let's say only 6 can defend, and 6 can attack.

why do you need npc monsters and doors if you set it up for when u have 17 members online.


NPCs could possibly be ignored/not used, but without doors or some sort of locks you're literally just running to the vault area and end gaming it. Even with your system or the set times, you need obstacles. Otherwise it's literally just a run to the vault.

Terron
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby Terron » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:48 am

if there isnt a way to limit alt usage for clans small vs big itll just be a team mosh except staff isnt there to even the teams, 3-5 noobs run in get smoked by 24 backstabs and roundhouses. wash rinse repeat.

why would you need npcs doors etc, you would want the smaller guilds to run right to the end as fast as possible so your 17 member team can just rape their faces as much as possible lol. its like a team of anteaters where the ants relentlessly attack w/o any hope of winning.
and guess what..we didnt even use a shard this week we just wanted to gorge on meaningless ants.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

User avatar
daedroth
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby daedroth » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:17 am

Terron wrote:if there isnt a way to limit alt usage for clans small vs big itll just be a team mosh except staff isnt there to even the teams, 3-5 noobs run in get smoked by 24 backstabs and roundhouses. wash rinse repeat.

why would you need npcs doors etc, you would want the smaller guilds to run right to the end as fast as possible so your 17 member team can just rape their faces as much as possible lol. its like a team of anteaters where the ants relentlessly attack w/o any hope of winning.
and guess what..we didnt even use a shard this week we just wanted to gorge on meaningless ants.


I know you like to write, but try to learn to read what others write.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

Terron
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Never Ending Shard Hunt

Postby Terron » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:09 pm

and you should probably realize other people have a greater scope of understanding the mechanics of these features than you do. i have helped design a few mmo's and all of them have problems with a raid clan feature. you cant name 1 game in existence that doesnt, because there isnt one. if the clan gets to a point its so large they cba to even care, they cant lose anyway. if they have a shard they will defend it, if they dont they will defend a nonexistent shard, they will just sit there in a group of 20 1x a week and slaughter, just to humor themselves. because it is actually funny. you lose no exp, you lose no gear, you dont lose character rank or standing, you will respawn right in your own guild house, you will run back if you even managed to die. guilds will leave vault empty on purpose. some wont even defend if they are small, and just except 6.x days of use on a shard or just sell them.

then 1 miraculous occasion the server merges to destroy Top guild A, they log on in droves, and when they get to the vault...wha?!! its empty. they all logged on us. someone leaked our attack plans... this happens on games with 4 million players. how do you actually expect it not to with 45.

the only way this is working is with a system of alt use attacker attacks with 5, defender defends with 5(defender uses npcs to help(useful like this, not useful in 20v6)
locked gold so people cannot remove it from guild and it actually be able to be stolen.
some sort of ranking system to actually add value to the system
and a random timer that just goes off (globally announced) when you have X accounts with 25ers online to defend.(stop idling :D)
or some sort of RP system where teams can try to conquer your dungeon for fun.(future builder training)

other than that its just a grief system.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants


Return to “Archive Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests

cron