Guild Changes/Party Changes?

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3120
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby NiteHawk » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:04 pm

This was discussed a bit in staff and I wanted to throw it to the public. First off, I think the game suffers from two major problems that keeps the player retention lower than normal (note, this is my opinion):

1. End game content/OADs. I think there is really nothing to do and OADs are being a bit flooded. As I posted here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2016 I think that will solve alot of issues however, and it is being worked on. So we got a good plan for this, just need to work on it.

2. Large guild domination. I think that the world is run by 1 or 2 guilds typically. A new player cannot survive in a small guild, and to even survive in the game, often you have to join the bigger guild because it is the only real way to play. I've heard this a dozen times now, players quitting fairly often because of it. I know we can say 'tough' in some cases, but I think we need to look at a solution, otherwise EO won't survive. It is obviously not fun if there is only 1 large guild, and it's impossible to do anything against them because they just have the numbers for everything.

---

We are obviously losing members. I think releasing the changes I talked about will bring a lot of players back, but without changes to guilds, I am very worried that players will simply quit again. So what can we do to solve it? I think the global embers not being as effective when you are a larger guild is a good start, but do we need to get more serious on this?

The proposition was that guilds would have a max account limit per guild. With global chat coming out, friend list, etc, players can still communicate together pretty easily, and should be more of a community that way. If this was actually a thing, what would be a good account limit per guild? Pretend that you only had one account per person (We can do minor tweaks like max characters per account later).

Obviously I do know that guilds could simply band up still, but I think this would, in time, would solve itself. People would want to fight amongst zones and want global embers for themselves. Probably other things too (PVP!). Eventually we could have alliances/wars system but not until the game would be bigger as an alliance would pretty much be similar to guilds now really.

I do think there needs to be more fair competition. Guild sizes is kind of something I wish I had to start if I was more open. I think there would be far less issues with something like it in place. Could be wrong though 8)

---

This is only a suggestion. I am totally up for any ideas, I am just throwing this up for discussion. It might be right, it might be wrong, but I think things do need to change in some ways, otherwise we won't really have a game to come back too if no one wants to play it. I am glad for the current players we have, but please look at it from another perspective with all that is going on and try to give ideas that would help the situation out.

---

One final note, maybe parties should be reverted back to 5 players max. Obviously I know there might be some minor tweaks needed (PVE bosses, maybe heals as well for a small amount?) but 6 seems to be pretty hard to do a lot of the times, and it's a pain to get for OADs. Most players probably 'feel' that they need the 'max' amount a party can have before entering a OAD or some PVP situations for example, so this would be forcing the hand. Again, I'm interested to know peoples takes on it.

MooGod
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:01 pm

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby MooGod » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:10 pm

I'm a relatively new player who everyone hates, so I feel I'm the perfect person to respond.

First of all, I completely agree that people leaving the game is a huge problem. Being called slurs by other guilds, overreacting and taunting them back, them overreacting and upping their flame ante, and so on, is most of the fun of the game.

I realize that might sound like sarcasm, but it's not. It's PVP, that's the only real fun part of the game. Leveling one character without it is pretty fun, but after that, people are playing for OADs and competition. Mostly friendly arguments between people and the chance to kill each other is what makes the game work. So, some changes are needed, I agree. Here are my issues:

Party size: A reduction in party size would just make things easier for the most organized guild. Sorry to say, that's Silh. And the people who are complaining now would just be made more angry by this. As a newer player, by far the biggest difference I see in fights is that one side usually coordinates targets and healing, and one only does that maybe 75% of the time. Smaller parties make this harder to do, and only benefit the "already too strong" side.

While I may like mocking the complainers, they still have some valid points, and I don't see this being a good change.

Breaking up guilds however, is pointless to me. I'm going to be blunt, there are only two things that could happen if I couldn't play with the people who were my friends and recruited me to play the game:

1. I would quit the game forever

2. If communication was strong enough, I would just continue playing with them, making me not being in their guild meaningless. If anything it would make it harder for the other side if I had an alt they didn't know well and they didn't know which side I'd be on with a simple /i.

I don't really have a better answer to #2, but I don't really see the point in people being punished for being more organized. Numbers are not that extreme at all. We've gotten stomped quite a bit recently at Thanatos and Dreads when the other guys work together, and then they outnumber us pretty easily most of the time.

However, with that said, they have one complaint that I think is completely legitimate. If you're starting as a new player, and you see Silh or even the other guilds already have 800 dragon scales and 50000 epic armors, it's going to feel like you can never compete with them. I really couldn't care less if our guild vault was pillaged or new better items were added to the game to rectify this. They could even be made available in some way that made it so being bad at the game didn't stop you from getting them, if that's needed. I'm half joking, but I do think it would be good if it was more possible for individual players to get at least some top gear. I know that's a delicate balance because OADs SHOULD be the most important aspect of the game, that competition is what makes it fun, but I also don't want it to feel impossible for people. Except for three or four people who deserve that, but new players should have a better chance!

Sorry in advance guild members for offering up your hard earned loot for sacrifice, but I don't really care anyway. It was almost nice lately when Revo or Empire or whoever won some fights, because the game IS boring if there's no competition. Unfortunately, it would also be boring if the competition was me being forced to fight against my friends and pretending it was fun.

Beyond that, I'm frankly not interested at all in being in a guild with most of the players in the game, and I'm sure they wouldn't want me either. Competition is fun, but it also breeds dislike.

Anyway, I realize this was a little light on solutions, and I'm definitely option to suggestions. I don't care if it makes the game harder for me or gives a boost to other guilds. I don't even care if they're just given a bunch of items at this point. All I really care about is being able to play with my friends, if some gifts are needed to keep everyone else happy, go for it. But guilds being broken up would be a deal breaker for me.

User avatar
Folder
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:04 am
Location: Texas

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby Folder » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:27 pm

I'm not a fan of breaking up guilds or limiting guild sizes. To me this is a bandaid solution to a systemic issue of, imo, it being almost 2018 and GMUDs being a bit of a relic.

I've been here since day 1, and in fact am the only person in my guild that's been around that long. I think it's also worth noting that Silhouette was a 3man clan for a number of months when the game was out. For my part I piggybacked on other guilds doing oads. I spent entirely too much time soloing dreads keys, making connections with people, and slowly absorbing members from other guilds who failed. The harsh truth is that those guilds nearly all failed because of 1) poor leadership and 2) clan drama that spiraled out of control.

WHY AM I SAYING ALL THIS BULLSHIT REEEE...because. You can do this too. You. The potential leader of a new guild who struggles, but perseveres and pulls through. --------IT TAKES ENORMOUS WORK------- in and, most importantly, out of game. We are basically playing a chat room with some stuff to keep us occupied. If you're not building a home for your guild members they will get bored and leave the guild or game entirely. I take some pride in what we've made with this guild, I consider many people here friends and I think that MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE is why people have stayed here.

So. I do not like the idea of breaking guilds up. I think it's a terrible solution and will result in either 1) mini guilds working together anyways or 2) people quitting because they can't play with friends.

NH you said one "can not survive in a small guild". I disagree. What qualifies as surviving in this context?
-Being successful at OaDs? I think the main obstacle to this is needing 6 people for most OaDs. It's not guild domination because there are many OaDs that we never touch, and some that we tryhard and underman.
-Having a large playerbase? This is the tricky one, but as I stated above (and in the past) this is imo largely on people to work on themselves. I know, what a prick this guy is!
-Winning events? Most events these days are based on random teams or are somehow set up to avoid guild domination. Pretty much solved already.
-Something else?

-------

Parties of 5? Personally I like 6 for group PvP but 5 is plenty doable as well and would help a little with making groups for OaDs.
<Silhouette>

Dan
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:35 am

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby Dan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:36 pm

I think first thing we need for player retention, is make pvp available only for 2 levels difference, and no exp loss.

For high end players retention, i suggest :

- More OAD areas
- Weekly Global threats (No PK Area) where random equips drops to everyone participating based on level (if succeeded beating it of course)
- More PVP events (Everyone participating get at least 1 PP)
- Elemental variations in OAD drops (5% vs weak div/-5% vs strong div) , maybe with effects small % (fire burns, ice slows, thunder cant move, earth poisons, night blind)
- Daily log in gifts (for certain amount of time) : gold boosters, drop boosters, material to craft equipment.

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3120
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby NiteHawk » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:10 pm

I can understand not breaking up guilds as that doesn't seem to be popular anyways, and that's fine, I'm looking more at a solution and was more bringing up a starting idea. I think though it's real easy to say that you can build up guild at this stage in EO because there aren't really new players coming in atm. It might be a different story if the game had new players daily though. Hopefully that changes with the upcoming changes but I can't really say for sure anything.

GMUDs aren't a huge popular base, but we don't need to be mega popular. I don't see why we can't aim for 60 people online to start. That's a pretty healthy number anyways. Saying that it's 2018 and gmuds are ded, I mean; I might as well just shut down the game if you think that, or do changes if the games going to die anyways. I gotta say we didn't lose our 45 online player base because GMUDS are dead, for sure. Obviously guilds aren't the only issue, as I stated though that made a decline in the amount of players.

The actual OAD for players aren't the issues though, I get you only need 6 people, but if a large guild wants the OAD, they'll kill everyone and continue. It isn't hard for them. I.E. look at all the crimson scales/items one guild has. I get theres a bit of skill on knowing what your doing as well that makes survival rates higher, but it's hard to compete often.

I really don't agree with limiting PVP that much Dan, PVP is what makes the game somewhat interesting, I think it's quite boring without it. EXP loss thing obviously we talked about and something will be changed there. I kind of don't think it would change much anyways, EXP loss before 23 anyways is not a lot, and all it's doing is limiting what players can do further. Some of your other ideas there are OK though.

We can leave parties at 6, that's fine, not a big deal there either.

My issue in the end is that the games going to die even with all these changes due to a one sided game though. I'll still normally listen to the public, but in the end if theres no real solutions then I think we'll have some troubles keeping players, imo. A lot of peeps can't dedicate like some others can, thats why alot of games have certain limitations with things to try to keep it more fair. Other things will have to be in place to try to offset bigger clans as I said like the global shards being reduced with large numbers/etc but it's hard to deal with a large guild in PVP for example or trying to protect your levelers when larger guilds can just overwhelm you.

People can also shrug and say piss on em, but that's half the player base we're losing... Half of them complaining about guild issues, something sounds problematic with guilds. It doesn't mean that the guild member count is flawed,, I was just sparking ideas mostly, it could be something else to do with how guilds interact with the world, etc. We need to retain players. Losing people here and there is life, but we should be trying to at least keeping the online count stable (I.e. lose one, gain one, not lose two, gain one.)

I do get certain players did work hard for their guilds too, but I'm trying to look at attempting to be fair in some way or another.

Terron
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby Terron » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:32 am

Guilds matter? i cant quite wrap my head around this one.

friends matter. and to save the game we must not exceed 5 friends....is this real?

party of 6 is too much? no its an even number. perhaps an odd number will have a better effect. are you kidding me?

theres too much pkers i cant even leave the temple. yeah...you prolly havent left town the whole fkin day. get over it. your character will be 25 in 4.02 days instead of 4.

the A team trys alot harder than us at dragons, i cant understand why we dont win

^this bs aside:

lets face some facts;
its a mud, 99/100 people will quit day 1. most of the ones that stay know/friends with another mudder.

ive played a year, lots of players have quit in every guild.

75% of the time im on silh is outnumbered a shitload.

not sure why peni..i mean, party size matters when the oads are doable with 3 people for the most part.

oads are fked:

-not random spawns so the same people who can dedicate that interval of time are always there.

-oads require 3-4 people get done, oads that allow or realistically need more people dont get done.

-u dont want to 3 man a boss with 7 enemies online (they could be idle but who knows) idle=stipid

-u dont want to die at bosses because obits is this huge dicked black dude ready to put the hammer to your colon(he can go deeper)
obits = stupid, obits are for player to player combat not monsters.

-you could have 400 people online in your guild and 394 of them have to jack the rabbit while 3-6 people get to play with bosses. they are supposed to be happy with waiting around?

-dragons drop best gear ingame and are alerted to everyone(is this why people log on for draggos?)maybe some orange drop monsters that arent alerts?

-the events are all seemingly the same. as in no 2v2 or 3v3 tournaments/ a tandem of the hill competition. maybe even larger group(4v4-6v6) battle leagues where you battle 10 weeks with your team and highest records advance to playoffs, chamionship, ember bowl? it is getting boring watching the same 2-3 classes win every event over and over because of some sort of "fair rules" eradicate other classes hopes of even being useful. (especially in a priests case. i have said before aid shouldnt be self cast and priests instead get a better heal spell that is self cast only but super expensive like 50 mana)

-idlers give staff false numbers when they try to run a decent event and only 2/11 are active in guild b.

-there are almost no funzie events besides trivia or map roaming.





here is the #1 real problem with muds. around 2% of players that play muds have leadership qualities. most cant be assed to care, give a fk, lead a party, occupy keys, etc. these are the people that go out and gather loot for themselves and friends. what about the the others? well 70% cba about whats inside the game either they just play for fun with friends. i mean theres lots of games out there. if they have no friends here i doubt theyll play.

oh right that last group. yea the last bit are the wanters. these select few stand in the ember welfare line hoping to get handed a magical lamp. that they can rub and release the great Djinni, Nitehawk the eternal, and pester him for freebie handjo...cough..handouts.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

User avatar
daedroth
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby daedroth » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:26 am

Damn, two new threads that should have been lumped together into one thread imho.
A lot of the things I would have said, have already been said.

My Opinion:

Party sizes:
Do not care, I am not bothered either way. However... as someone else said, all making the party sizes smaller will mean is that guilds will be able to do more OADS at the same time, and wasn't having OADS at the same time to try and make it so that no one guild could do them all?

Guilds:
Well, what Terron, Folder and MooGod said. I am in Silh because I have friends there, not for any other reason. Do not break up our happy home please. You want your guild to thrive? Then get rid of the people who create drama and want to freeload (good luck, so many of them are in the game) and create a friendly atmosphere (already been covered by Folder though).

Now stuff from the other thread (viewtopic.php?f=10&p=15648#p15648):

Suffix/Prefix ('ix for short):
This would help with loot variation, and as seen from Diablo and games like that, people will farm for this kind of thing. Obviously certain prefix's/suffixes would only apply to a certain type of item (weapon and/or armour).
Could even be item material (raises AD/AC slightly or maybe even lowers).
Could be 'ixs that have give a positive and a negative: Heavy Armour + to damage resistance (AC), -to stamina recovery (MAYBE -1 dodge AGL, not so keen on that, because realism dictates otherwise (it does! armour generaly did not make you easier to hit, it just made you tire out and overheat faster) light versions that does the reverse), Heavy Weapon +to AD -to stamina recovery (or even -1 attack AGL but see armour, and light versions that do the reverse).
Ah... the possibilities are limitless!
Runes that act as 'ix's

Gambling:
Add a shop like Diablo where you can gamble for items. Most of them will be normal, but every so often... Good money sink.

OADS:
Keep the same loot lists, maybe make a way of increasing the chances of certain prefix/suffix (flame sally = more a chance of fire type suffix/prefix drops).
OAD times:
Some should have fixed times (make some lore specific reason, ie Fan'o'toes would be night always. MAYBE a slight variation on the hour?
Some OAD bosses may only stay around for X amount of time too (I think this already exists).

World Walkers:
Some should give announcements (as already is). There should be some that give none though (mini bosses that just randomly spawn with no set time or location, and then just randomly despawn if not encountered).
Elites/Champion/Veteran: Already discussed and I think in the pipeline (random better/tougher than normal monster spawn, that gives more exp and better chance of drops). I think these should also despawn if not encountered.

Enchantment/Disenchant/Crafting:
Crafting:
Ingredients and money to give a sort of random/fixed 'ix and/or item?
New ingredient drops from creatures.
Disenchanting:
being basically breaking down an item to give ingredients (relevant to the 'ix of the item being broken down) for giving another item an 'ix?
Enchanting:
Random 'ix given at the cost of gold (maybe ingredients) from an Alchemist/Enchanter (maybe not Enchanter since we have the class, although I think we need to revise class names :p, already been discussed: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=334 seriously change the class names!).

Instances:
I like and dislike, either way, pain in the ass to add in a way that is fair.
Some Ideas:
Solo adventures: One chance, you die, you lose out. OAD. Can only go on one a day?
How would they work? Could you be d*ck blocked? Is the area only accessible to you... you know what I need a break from typing (also need a piss), I'll get back to this bit.
Possible Idea...
Make everything abstract and text based. Eh... nm... i was thinking browser type thing, actions take a stamina, random encounters, end encounter... meh... I am off!
Last edited by daedroth on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

Aftershock
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:51 pm

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby Aftershock » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:30 am

You all make some Valid points but none of you have come up with a fix to the growing Guild problems.

I know exactly why you guys don't like it. You have to put more effort into getting items instead of just taking what you want. I am not been Biased here either. I have friends in both Guilds but this is a growing problem as i've seen too many people drop from this game due to the whole Guild issues.

So if introducing a Max member count or removing Guilds altogether isn't going to work, what can you guys propose?
Aftershock

User avatar
daedroth
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby daedroth » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:43 am

cadabra wrote:You all make some Valid points but none of you have come up with a fix to the growing Guild problems.

I know exactly why you guys don't like it. You have to put more effort into getting items instead of just taking what you want. I am not been Biased here either. I have friends in both Guilds but this is a growing problem as i've seen too many people drop from this game due to the whole Guild issues.

So if introducing a Max member count or removing Guilds altogether isn't going to work, what can you guys propose?


I do not think there is a solution (other than trying to make the guild a home for clannies).
It all goes down to the individuals mentality. Some people can shrug things off and get on with things. Some people need their hand held or rage quit. Some people just need to be in the winning team and pwn everything. Some people just need to be in a clan with friends.
All I can say is, I joined Silh because i liked the people there, and I stayed for the same reason (now I hate them all!). I would still stay even if we did nothing productive and only had cast me down ring mail and rusty swords.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

anthriel
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Guild Changes/Party Changes?

Postby anthriel » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:17 am

My basic suggestion for this thread's topic was posted back in May here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1512

Basically its to introduce very a lucrative incentive system that is specifically designed to encourage player activity, guild diversity and competition (see thread for example of what that might look like). In a system like i proposed in that former thread, those who are on board with a big guild because it aids their progression but actually wouldnt mind doing their own thing will likely pursue the incentives and choose to branch off, while fast friends like MooGod, Daedroth, Folder etc can choose to continue to exist as one big guild and reap less of the incentives but still enjoy each others company under the one banner. No one is forced to disband. Individuals/smaller-groups get a leg up (like MooGod suggested). Everybody wins?

Shrugs. Peace


Return to “Archive Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 18 guests

cron