Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

What should we do with slayers? (Read the options in the post)

Poll ended at Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:04 am

Number #1
4
13%
Number #2
6
19%
Number #3
8
25%
Number #4 (NEW)
5
16%
Number #5 (NEW)
6
19%
Number #6 (NEW)
3
9%
 
Total votes: 32
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Styx
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby Styx » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:43 pm

Only thing that could help, is if more classes or a hex class could have a spell similar to ff but actually lands, a. On combat spell and has a lot of umeffects

Possible to change dagger dammage so a single wield with shield does smaller dammage, but a duel wield does the higher dammage, and would have lower armor so easier to hit.

This way it's the choice of small bs with a shield for armor, or duel wield with the big boom hit, but less armor chance.


Change the percent so it goes in conjuction with what bs would be needed.

I personally have no oponion on either way it goes so choosing no vote.

Edit,

Ps typing faerie fire while in combat stinks, can we come up with a better name so it can be typed quickly without using aliases?

Edit 2,

Concerning monks dammage, if we drop monk dammage then ling and or 18 str ninjas dammage might really stink... just saying

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby JadeFalcon » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:12 am

Just to recap my long discussion on discord yesterday
- If its to prevent issues with lag being used to overpower priests, i see no problem forcing a hide delay
- If the issue is balance, i think instead of tinkering with a popular class, we should focus on improving other classes, because:
a) The end result might be the same
b) You dont get me being all defensive
c) Actually more interesting things can come out of ideas to up other classes, than to nerf a class


Balance will always be a death march, we wont have it perfect, ever. But ill rather address this by making classes more fun, than just dropping the "nerf hammer"
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Styx
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby Styx » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:03 am

Agreed, leave the popular classes alone and upgrade the others to become better. Why mess up current ones that people are happy with

anthriel
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby anthriel » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:58 am

If i had to choose of the 6 options listed, id choose #3 as it retains their function as high dps and is more in line with lore (sneaky ppl shouldnt be wearing ringmail, helms and shields anyway)

However i agree with JF that slayers are generally balancing well in 1v1 pvp.... and i agree with Terron that there are problems when large parties of multiple slayers (and some way of keeping them alive) can pretty much end anything else. Therefore the issue seems to be a 1vs1 against 10vs10+ balance issue... and i think if priest heals are going to be nerfed then slayers arent needed in groupfights anymore to break deadlocks and so the best way to retain slayer identity without causing groupfight balance issues is to largely remove their effectiveness from the groupfight dynamic of the game. Slayers would then be a good solo pk class but would need a very effective player to solo coordinate with their friends who are in a party when helping out at keys/OADs etc. It also makes it harder for healers to heal them when they cant track their HP easily in /party.

This could be done in several ways including:
    1. adding disabilities when they join a party (eg cant hide, cant backstab if behind a guardian etc) ... sure slayers can still help at keyfights/oads but will need to walk themselves rather than ride along and also call out for heals more etc etc (no party benefits)
    2. they are given a base % chance to fail hide (which increases with lower int - eg a possible counter to Horcs and other high damage but low int slayers) and then an even higher chance to fail hiding if they are in a party or behind a guard ... such that they cant just take for granted they will be hiding when they hit F1. This is better than adding 1sec delays to bstabs etc cos you want there to still be a chance that the lucky slayer can pull off a double bstab to round some1 b4 the player pots/heals or the slayer is found/ffed.
    3. Lower armor as per #3 wouldnt hurt with keeping the lore/identity/function of slayers as well.

Basically i feel slayers should be good solo killers who have high dps but die pretty easily when found. And they shouldnt so easily be able to use their abilities in a large party (lorewise it makes no sense). Peace.

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby JadeFalcon » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:35 am

anthriel wrote:
This could be done in several ways including:
    1. adding disabilities when they join a party (eg cant hide, cant backstab if behind a guardian etc) ... sure slayers can still help at keyfights/oads but will need to walk themselves rather than ride along and also call out for heals more etc etc (no party benefits)


Total agree with this one.

Also another idea - Not that i necessarily advocate, but an idea: One point that piddy made is that slayers have the most damage versus PVE, which is true. This could be easily worked out if at lvl 25, slayers made less 10% damage on NPCs

I dont agree in lowering AC for slayers, we are squishy as it is.
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NiteHawk
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:01 am

JadeFalcon wrote:
anthriel wrote:
This could be done in several ways including:
    1. adding disabilities when they join a party (eg cant hide, cant backstab if behind a guardian etc) ... sure slayers can still help at keyfights/oads but will need to walk themselves rather than ride along and also call out for heals more etc etc (no party benefits)


Total agree with this one.

Also another idea - Not that i necessarily advocate, but an idea: One point that piddy made is that slayers have the most damage versus PVE, which is true. This could be easily worked out if at lvl 25, slayers made less 10% damage on NPCs

I dont agree in lowering AC for slayers, we are squishy as it is.


Not any squisher than any other class really, bar a Ninja with the agi bonus. Only classes better in armor are Paladin/Knight. AC doesn't effect dodging/etc obv.

Making them have a penalty when being in a party doesn't work in most PVP fights. The problem would probably be at key areas anyways, it's a moot point as they can just disband when they arrive and rejoin when done. Not a real difficult task to do. You'd lose some watch on them in /party but it's fairly easy for slayers to run off to heal themselves.

PVE really isn't the biggest issue with them either, I haven't even thought or cared about the PVE side of them.

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby JadeFalcon » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:08 am

You and your facts... :evil:
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NiteHawk
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:09 am

JadeFalcon wrote:You and your facts... :evil:


I know, I'm just saying though. If anything 60% of the classes are = in terms of squishness since most of them have medium armor. Honestly it would eventually be nice to have classes in each armor category, it's pretty odd setup atm.

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby JadeFalcon » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 am

I am comfortable with the armor as is - I think if we get suffixes for armor, then we can perhaps get class specific stuff? Dunno, sorry im thread jacking.
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

Proud member, Halfling Appreciation Club

HAC Tip of the Week:
Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!

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NiteHawk
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Re: Slayers - What to do with them? (REVOTE)

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:14 am

JadeFalcon wrote:I am comfortable with the armor as is - I think if we get suffixes for armor, then we can perhaps get class specific stuff? Dunno, sorry im thread jacking.


Class specific stuff like that though?

The point to lower armor would be so they take 5% more damage or so really. If you just lower their armor and then give them class armor it kind of defeats the purpose of a nerf though


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