Armor discussion

User avatar
JadeFalcon
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:29 am

Armor discussion

Postby JadeFalcon » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:07 am

I think we all need to debate a bit armor

I think currently there is an issue of mismatching types of armor with classes (ex. 60% of classes wear medium armor).
What classes should wear what armor?
I am fairly comfortable with what we have to be honest, but others will have a different view.

Also, can/should armor that gives passive bonuses a thing?
- I personally would love if there were armor pieces that gave for example, a bonus to spell resistance, or a permanent haste bonus, at the expense of a very low AC for their class
- I would like to have armor bonuses depending on the set you are using (ex if you are using all mithril armor plus mithril weapons, you get a bonus).
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

Proud member, Halfling Appreciation Club

HAC Tip of the Week:
Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!

User avatar
Kruell
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 10:35 pm

Re: Armor discussion

Postby Kruell » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:27 pm

Ideally you want an even distribution of classes to types of armor but that isn't required. Spreading out who can use light/heavy helms to coincide with armor groupings for more divergence is also an idea. This would be my choice even though it isn't even.

Heavy: Cav, Guard
Medium: Elder, Minstrel, Stalker, Zerker
Light: Brigand, Ninja, Priest, Slayer
Cloth: Chanter, DM

The main issue with trying to have an even spread is who gets the boost to Heavy armor without overpowering them? If I had to spread them out evenly though right now I think I'd go the following way.

Heavy: Cav, Guard, Zerker (ling zerker op with 25 agi dodge too?)
Medium: Elder, Minstrel, Stalker
Light: Brigand, Ninja, Slayer
Cloth: Chanter, DM, Priest (possibly boost their aegis though)

I like the idea of armors that have different bonuses or abilities. Have an armor that is -2 on comparable but give a bonus to MR. A lower AC shield that gives a bonus to shield bash damage. There are plenty of possibilities but it all requires some major coding changes. I'm not sure as to how much work would be needed and too much could detract from other things needing done.

While I do like set bonuses, I'm not to thrilled with having them in Ember. Having spent a decade playing warcraft, I can say that sets are a great motivator to get people out and running. This isn't warcraft though and we won't have increases in levels every 2 years requiring new sets. If this was done I'd suggest the bonuses be mild. For instance, equipping a set worn by a Cavalier ends up giving you -5 AC (or more) but you gain bonus damage reduction or extra shield bash. Working out equivalent set armor for every class would be difficult and the bonuses would need to be hard capped. This is probably worth discussion since it could add flavor but I'm hesitant to support it due to the extra complications it could bring in.
If you look like prey you will be eaten

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3828
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Armor discussion

Postby NiteHawk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:02 pm

Kruell wrote:Ideally you want an even distribution of classes to types of armor but that isn't required. Spreading out who can use light/heavy helms to coincide with armor groupings for more divergence is also an idea. This would be my choice even though it isn't even.

Heavy: Cav, Guard
Medium: Elder, Minstrel, Stalker, Zerker
Light: Brigand, Ninja, Priest, Slayer
Cloth: Chanter, DM

The main issue with trying to have an even spread is who gets the boost to Heavy armor without overpowering them? If I had to spread them out evenly though right now I think I'd go the following way.

Heavy: Cav, Guard, Zerker (ling zerker op with 25 agi dodge too?)
Medium: Elder, Minstrel, Stalker
Light: Brigand, Ninja, Slayer
Cloth: Chanter, DM, Priest (possibly boost their aegis though)

I like the idea of armors that have different bonuses or abilities. Have an armor that is -2 on comparable but give a bonus to MR. A lower AC shield that gives a bonus to shield bash damage. There are plenty of possibilities but it all requires some major coding changes. I'm not sure as to how much work would be needed and too much could detract from other things needing done.

While I do like set bonuses, I'm not to thrilled with having them in Ember. Having spent a decade playing warcraft, I can say that sets are a great motivator to get people out and running. This isn't warcraft though and we won't have increases in levels every 2 years requiring new sets. If this was done I'd suggest the bonuses be mild. For instance, equipping a set worn by a Cavalier ends up giving you -5 AC (or more) but you gain bonus damage reduction or extra shield bash. Working out equivalent set armor for every class would be difficult and the bonuses would need to be hard capped. This is probably worth discussion since it could add flavor but I'm hesitant to support it due to the extra complications it could bring in.


Despite what people say, zerkers only get a -1.5agi decrease to DODGE only, and not attack. They aren't garbage dodgers, they just are a bit weaker. If you pick HO though you'll for sure have low dodge, (17.5 right?) and that makes it hard for them. That being said I think they'd be in a good spot with heavy armor though. I don't think they are so powered in PVP because of how they work and they cannot just 'get rage' everytime. it has to be built up and if you miss, it resets. Often does in PVP.

I don't think priests need to be changed, they were already changed and IMO if they are to op you just adjust aegis.

Heavy: Cav, Guard, Zerker (possibly zerker here)
Medium: Elder, Minstrel, Stalker
Light: Brigand, Ninja, Priest
Cloth: Chanter, DM, Slayer

Would be where I think it should be and probably is the most minimal changes but makes it still work. Brigs, Slayers would need adjusting, zerkers you just tell em to farm. Slayers is a debate though and depends on how they are changed.

Armor sets and the like are neat ideas though. I’d like to eventually have that. For bonuses though I don’t know if the prefix suffix thing will be too much on top with specific armor bonuses too. I intended on armor having a prefix or suffix sometimes . Think like Diablo. Atm it was going to be all suffix and prefix can be added to all ac but if you change certain classes, for example slayers to cloth, and make the armor types not all medium armor classes you could have specific prefix or suffix bonuses based on the armor type. Cloth could have spell bonuses, a light haste, etc. heavy could have additional armor, thorn armor, things like that. Not sure about that but I think the prefix suffix thing is enough to make a lot of interesting armors without adding tons of armors

User avatar
JadeFalcon
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:29 am

Re: Armor discussion

Postby JadeFalcon » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:04 am

NiteHawk wrote:
Heavy: Cav, Guard, Zerker (possibly zerker here)
Medium: Elder, Minstrel, Stalker
Light: Brigand, Ninja, Priest
Cloth: Chanter, DM, Slayer


Doesnt make much sense that Brigands and slayers are in a different class..
Either way, put slayers/brigs in light, priests in cloth - i mean literally "a man of the cloth" is a synonym for priest :P
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

Proud member, Halfling Appreciation Club

HAC Tip of the Week:
Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3828
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Armor discussion

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 am

JadeFalcon wrote:
NiteHawk wrote:
Heavy: Cav, Guard, Zerker (possibly zerker here)
Medium: Elder, Minstrel, Stalker
Light: Brigand, Ninja, Priest
Cloth: Chanter, DM, Slayer


Doesnt make much sense that Brigands and slayers are in a different class..
Either way, put slayers/brigs in light, priests in cloth - i mean literally "a man of the cloth" is a synonym for priest :P



It could be light armor for em too yeah. I probably wouldn't put priests armor up though, they could do with a little less AC anyways.

In terms though (of what I was thinking) was mainly to do with Brigs and Slayer balance, not so much the 'validity of it'. Aka Brigs have lower damage and can steal have a little higher armor, and slayers are better at damage. but have lower armor. Either or though lowering their armor to at least light is probably a OK choice here as they can use /hide for cover most of the time.

User avatar
Styx
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:14 am

Re: Armor discussion

Postby Styx » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:46 am

Zerker is a high dps output, equipping heavy armor could cause problems

Ps guardian dammage is weak at best

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3828
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Armor discussion

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:10 am

Styx wrote:Zerker is a high dps output, equipping heavy armor could cause problems

Ps guardian dammage is weak at best


I dun think you know how dem work.

The idea, on what I like about zerkers, is that they are HEAVY HITTERS, but random as hell for rage. I don't want them to have more HP, they have enough and upping HP is too much at this point. They literally die in PVP unless they get lucky (normally) and are obviously more non-resistant to magic. AKA HIGH RISK, HIGH PAYOUT IF YOUR LUCKY. It's damn rare to get three rages on at once, yet alone more than one.

I would relish the fact of making the class have heavy armor, lower agi, higher damage. This to me is a rather UNIQUE class then, and they do need a little more love, but not much. I think they're generally 'OK', its just right now that there's another option that's better due to less penalties for high damage :>

So instead of dodging, you make them absorb more damage. However, I'd say people would prefer dodging then absorbing, its not like they'll start absorbing 80% of everything just because they have slightly heavier gear. Another 10-15% of absorb at best. Might even make a zerker with a shield viable too.

User avatar
JadeFalcon
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:29 am

Re: Armor discussion

Postby JadeFalcon » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:32 am

If you arent giving them more HP, give them more damage - no reason why they cant round people more consistently.

Perhaps its just me, but it just seems "weird" that they should have heavier armor... i mean they are supposed to be crazy murderers without much finesse.. running around in rags, but hey, killing alot.

Edit:
I am a consistent person, i suggested that here before:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2261&start=10
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

Proud member, Halfling Appreciation Club

HAC Tip of the Week:
Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!

Terron
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Armor discussion

Postby Terron » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:04 am

cloth : ninja deathmage chanter
light: brigand priest slayer
medium: druid minstrel stalker
heavy: cavalier guardian zerker

i can tell you why i stopped using my zerker. it died in 2 rounds all the time to non slayers. it needed a guard to last more than 30 seconds. struggled finding guard users, so i just play the guard now. and on top of that slayer is just better.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

User avatar
Kruell
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 10:35 pm

Re: Armor discussion

Postby Kruell » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:29 pm

Before changing zerkers to heavy armor it would be easy to give a few zerkers AC rings to see how they do in events. Just give them 2 pp for an event no matter how they do, that way if it is overpowered they won't be stacking huge pp but it also gives them an incentive to do as many as possible just to get a good testing on how they stand. Using players this way to test the zerker would be an easy way to see if the class becomes op when boosted to the next level armor. With guilds fighting each other so much at oads and keys we will hear what people have to say about the change in the world at large. Things like this are very easy to test before implementation.

PS: Anyone want to start running their slayers or ninjas on weaker armor just for kicks to see how they do... it would be an interesting experiment.

"Tyrargo is protected by his Void Cloak." ;)
If you look like prey you will be eaten


Return to “Core”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests