Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Terron
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby Terron » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:36 pm

prefix/suffix should be long term crafts and 1 randomly generated "large" modifier. the super craft that keeps you playing but would rarely be used on lower tier equips, unless they have extremely good modifiers.

i think up to 4 modifiers should be rolled on all equipment, these should have a large range of randomness so farming perfect gear is hard.

"sockets" or whatever you want to call them are addable modifiers that are shorter term craftables. these will be the bread and butter, most used content thats added to lower gear with decent mods as a viable source when you cant "top out" your gear. they wouldnt be extremely powerful mods, but you can fashion them to your own liking.

that about sums it up for me, hits oads/farming/and solo play over the entire day, not just 6 preselected 10 minute intervals that you can enjoy if your superguild has +4 people over everyone else.
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NiteHawk
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:23 pm

Terron wrote:prefix/suffix should be long term crafts and 1 randomly generated "large" modifier. the super craft that keeps you playing but would rarely be used on lower tier equips, unless they have extremely good modifiers.

i think up to 4 modifiers should be rolled on all equipment, these should have a large range of randomness so farming perfect gear is hard.

"sockets" or whatever you want to call them are addable modifiers that are shorter term craftables. these will be the bread and butter, most used content thats added to lower gear with decent mods as a viable source when you cant "top out" your gear. they wouldnt be extremely powerful mods, but you can fashion them to your own liking.

that about sums it up for me, hits oads/farming/and solo play over the entire day, not just 6 preselected 10 minute intervals that you can enjoy if your superguild has +4 people over everyone else.


So in your idea a prefix/suffix would be a one large random modifier, kind of like a 'final' thing to do on an item, and then a modifier would be smaller ones (i.e. weak mods) that do things like give you HP and whatnot.

So for example, I save up crafts for a prefix, get let's say, +5% damage to goblins. (I dunno if this is a 'big boost', could be more). I add a suffix, which gives me 50HP more. Item would be renamed to something reflecting this I assume too.

Then I also add 2 quick modifiers, i.e. i try to add a HP one and get 6 HP more, and then a MP one that gives 15 MP more. etc type thing. Smaller but easier to obtain modifiers.

It's not a bad idea, I actually kind of like the idea overall.

Terron
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby Terron » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:42 pm

yeah. burning dagger of fire or something for prefix/suffix

then up to 4 mods rolled on drop with larger ranges maybe 1-35 for ranges, and other set mods like .1 to stats

8 hp
14 mana
0.1 str
High hum (if u count hums as part of this)

modifications - 2

pearl of wisdom - 3% bonus exp
ruby of insight +4% mr

something like that

edit: i think the prefix/suffix mods need to be worthwhile long term crafts. and randomly generated when crafted. but if they are all usuable i think it would be awesome.

the "socket" modifications could have a set pattern when crafted, either directly, or in smaller sets of items. i.e defensive mods or offensive if u want to keep rng in this part too
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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NiteHawk
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:55 pm

Terron wrote:yeah. burning dagger of fire or something for prefix/suffix

then up to 4 mods rolled on drop with larger ranges maybe 1-35 for ranges, and other set mods like .1 to stats

8 hp
14 mana
0.1 str
High hum (if u count hums as part of this)

modifications - 2

pearl of wisdom - 3% bonus exp
ruby of insight +4% mr

something like that

edit: i think the prefix/suffix mods need to be worthwhile long term crafts. and randomly generated when crafted. but if they are all usuable i think it would be awesome.

the "socket" modifications could have a set pattern when crafted, either directly, or in smaller sets of items. i.e defensive mods or offensive if u want to keep rng in this part too


I agree about long term crafts. I'd probably be OKAY with hums in it. I also agree with RNG when crafted. It will produce a bit of trade too if you don't necessarily get the one you 'really wanted' (though you could probably reroll it with enough mats again.)

I assume the pearl of wisdom and HP/mana/str/hum are part of the same 'modifications' though.

Terron
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby Terron » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:23 pm

no, not the same.

your modifications are the short term cratables "sockets"

the other 0-4 are rolled when the weapon drops.
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anthriel
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby anthriel » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:40 pm

In all honesty I care much more about how new items will be obtained and how that affects general gameplay and quality of experience for players.... but I’ll throw in my suggestion for purely prefix/suffix implementation since NH wants to narrow the focus of the thread (even though i don’t really care too much about it)

Basically my suggestion is to keep it simpler. You don’t really need to code the prefix n suffix onto item names like Diablo. It’s gonna be a pain to watch every inflated text line of “player1 attacks you with his golden vampiric void blade of the bear for x damage” .... just leave it as “void blade” and do the following things:
1. Increase the number of ember slots on weapons/armor to more than 1 (to however many mods you want)
2. Package the new prefix/suffix mods onto embers. (Eg “Golden vampiric ember of the bear” - which may give a package of bonuses like +x HP, +x% life steal per hit, + 0.3 agi or something depending on the prefix/suffix on the ember)
3. Let people farm the embers as they do now (ie random drop) and add them to their items as they currently do now (though there may need to be added a way to delete a selected ember - or even better to retrieve it for reuse elsewhere). This helps with giving stuff to do for ppl with super-guild / oad time issues. Adding some random timer bosses that spawn in random locations (killable that day, with no notifications) for more valuable ember drops would help too.
4. Ppl can see what these mods mean by looking at the weapon (but not necessarily by looking at the character). They can also research in the academia

IMHO This simplifies the text inflation and actually make embers matter more (which should benefit given the name of the game). There’s probably some drawbacks to the above cos I didn’t care enough to think it through super thoroughly. Hopefully others will figure it out. Peace.

_______________

Edit (additional aside): I do generally agree with Terron’s statement that issues are interrelated and broader discussion of gameplay aims is helpful to ensure issues are adequately considered in a wider context. Even if NH’s and others wish for very specific posts about specific issues, I often find that discussing something in isolation often leads to it being a wasted opportunity for its implementation solving bigger game issues. Eg. The current control crystal system we have now could potentially have been designed have to address many of the issues that we are still raising as problems (eg more things to do outside OAD times, incentives against super-guilds, promoting real guild diversity etc) but instead what we have in the current system largely addresses none of those things. We have control crystals implemented yes. But they had more potential. Sure I could post about fixing these ‘already-implemented’ things but why bother fighting another tide of change resistance. Much better to suggest that the current un-implemented hot-topic addresses some of the needed aims instead. To me, it doesn’t really matter which mechanism (whether it be prefix/suffix, control crystals, crafting/farming etc etc) is used to address the necessary issues, but that ultimately these underlying issues are addressed and the gameplay aims met.

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daedroth
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby daedroth » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:23 am

I haven't really been keeping up to date on this, and the wall of text makes it too much effort to read through, but I agree with what Anthriel just posted, it looks like it makes sense to me.
One caveat though: Slot numbers should be limited based on weapon/shield size I think. Armour slots should be limited too (but the same for each class).
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Styx
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby Styx » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:28 am

Just go with sockets, and then we make the item to add

All monsters would need is a drop added, then we make the item.

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NiteHawk
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:59 am

Ah okay Terron, so pretty much what was talked about before. That's possible too. I might be okay with a heavy cost to reroll those weapon drop modifiers too like hums/etc but would involve a cost I'd say. Not sure yet though on that if we go that way.

anthriel wrote:..


I mean talking about how these can drop is fine. but how these drop and changing the whole OAD system are technically different topics.

When attacking I think it might be better if it just said the original weapon name, I do agree there. Lookover/etc will have the actual name. It's gonna be too cluttery anyways but it's more of a showoff thing regardless.

When you say 'Ember Slots' I think if it was to increase all embers it would be a problem mainly because people running around with 25% or 50% bonuses would be insane.

Random bosses with no notifications can be a thing as well, would be first come first serve type deal. It would be an addition to everything anyways.

Yeah I agree, people will be able to see what mod does what, I don't think we'll hide it from them.

We have control crystals implemented yes. But they had more potential. Sure I could post about fixing these ‘already-implemented’ things but why bother fighting another tide of change resistance.


Again, I get where your coming from but no one but 2-3 people follow it if you guys do that. I'm not lying or making a random shot when I say people say they got frustrated at the boards because everything got derailed/too much in one post. I'd really prefer other posts for different topics. Even I stopped posting for awhile, it's tough to wrap my head about so many issues and it's seriously hard to upkeep/remember/manage. I'm not saying the posts are bad either, but splitting up topics, specially when they have so much reading, is to the benefit of others who want to try to chime in.

But why not post about this in a new thread I.E. CC Improvements? I'd really like ideas on it. I do intend on extending it (including the city owning crystals) and I do agree it has more potential. But we should have different topics for different things. That way people can actually chime in it. There's often alot of text here, and when you have 5-6 different topics in one post, people don't post, it's too complex, people who just get in on this don't want to read 6 pages with random things, and I'm sure they have no clue how to jump into it at that point.

Styx wrote:Just go with sockets, and then we make the item to add

All monsters would need is a drop added, then we make the item.



Yes and no. I don't think it should be all drops. It kind of makes it too easy. The idea partially here is making players do something. Making farming drops is obviously something that players will to run around and do, which is a GOOD idea.

Logically speaking, having set drops means you have to have them at a very low percentage.
I.E. A mod dropping that gives 15HP. Since this is probably mid/highrange I would assume, this means the drop rate would probably have to be in the 0.x area, etc. Aka not alot.

Having it be a craftable means you:
A. Make players go to different areas to gather materials.
B. Make it feel like they are progressing.
C. Easier to manipulate farming times; if we want players to get X item in Y hours, rather then straight up luck/rng.
D. Make materials a high commodity through trading, not just the mod.

All are beneficial. What I mean by 'progressing' and 'farming times vs luck' is similar to what we did for some quests. Instead of requiring 4 items and having a drop rate of 5%, you boost it to requiring 20 items but having a drop rate of 25-33%. This means that even though it's MORE, obviously they drop MORE, thus you feel like you are progressing. It also makes RNG less of a factor. Someone could get 4 items if they're super lucky fast, but someone else could struggle for a super super long time, which isn't really fair. You can even boost it further if you want it to be far more common, etc, but I probably wouldn't go so crazy to prevent room clutter. AKA the less RNG (lower drop rate) the more it's easier to know how long it takes to get X materials on average and the more it feels like your progressing. You simply cannot do that by having mats drop straight up. It's less hard work and more dumb luck.

anthriel
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Re: Prefix/Suffix. How to do it (MK II)

Postby anthriel » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:11 am

NiteHawk wrote:
anthriel wrote:..


When you say 'Ember Slots' I think if it was to increase all embers it would be a problem mainly because people running around with 25% or 50% bonuses would be insane.



I'm not sure how my suggestion allows people to have 25%-50% bonuses unless you allowed say 5+ slots to be opened (or some higher number than i was intending).

Basically say you allowed 3 embers rather than 1 per weapon. But embers are expanded to allow a greater variety of packaged effects. So for example:
    eg#1- A middle-class person may have a sword with 3x3% div ember (overall benefit = 9% div bonus).
    eg#2 - A richer person may have 2x5% div bonus embers and a special 1x "vampiric ember of the bear" which gives +15HP and +3% lifesteal per hit (overall benefit 10% div bonus + 15HP + 3% lifesteal per hit).
    eg#3 - Someone who has top tier goodies may have farmed 1x "vampiric ember of the bear" and 1x "%5 fire ember of the snake" and 1x "resistant ember of agility" (say for overall benefit of+15HP +6% lifesteal + 5% fire div bonus + 15MP + 4%MR + 0.3AGI or something like that)....
In the above examples, with 3 slots overall you still get up to 6 modifications on your weapon but how much those add up to depends on you farming some damn good embers (which should keep people busy/happy for something to do). But maybe if those 6 things add up to too much then reduce the size of the benefits or make it only 2 ember slots (or even keep it at 1)... shrug. I just thought this is easier to add these embers (which bestow the prefix/suffix mods) to a base weapon (and then also add capability to be able to remove & trade/sell/reuse them) than completely changing the weapons so that you have this massive database of random weapons with diff prefixes and suffixes (that possibly end up getting trashed or needs weird re-rolling to change in order to get the prefix/suffix that you want).

Basically what i'm suggesting effective treats the embers as sockets which is what i think others have suggested also previously. But my main concern was keeping the "void blade" called "void blade" for simplicity and lack of confusion (eg is a newbie going to be able to tell whether "blood mist warshield" is the name of the base item or whether "blood mist" is the prefix?.... or are we going to end up with really confusing names like "bloody blood mist warshield of blood" , "burning flaming hakama of water" or "holy devil's horn of the bear" which just sound plain weird? ) ... shrugs. In any case im glad that you are not intending to let the combat text be conflated with the new names. But id also suggest avoiding the confusion of the above by keeping all that prefix/suffix stuff hidden in the embers/enchantments rather than confusing people with odd item names in the first place. Peace


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