PK system and XP

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Lateralus
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby Lateralus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:58 am

I always like to keep it as simple as possible so going to take a combo of ideas here:

.5% exp loss per death. (level 25 dm would lose about 1.75mil per death max).

would let characters gain say 10% more exp than top for level 25 just like the other levels so you have a bit of cushion. (dm could have 385mil 35mil over needed)

After being 10% below your base level exp lose -1 (dm at 314 would have -1 all stats)
20% below you lose -2
30% -3 and so on.


1% exp loss per death when killed by someone lower level than you IF you are level 25


maybe a limit to 3-5 deaths per hour if you are level 24 an below? not sure about good cap for that maybe how it was done before in those regards



What this solves:
fights mean a bit more ghosting needs to be thought about a bit more.
Even if you do die and lose exp its a positive because it means you need to go out and level and be active.
If you are risking a bit more by attempting to fight or jump someone lower level than you then you are going to lose more exp.

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Kruell
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby Kruell » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:13 am

I think some level of exp loss should be put in. There should be a limit though to either/or how much can be lost or total lost per level. For 25ers though, I'd suggest something a bit different. How about if they die to someone UNDER level 25, it immediately kicks in a 5 minute sickness to their account just like chain deaths does. I think this would put some very serious complications into PVP activity and maybe get some people gearing up lvl 24 characters to try to take on 25ers. It would also make PK attempts on high end levelers very dangerous for the attackers.

I do like the infamy/bounty system. I've played a few games with "reputation" systems and it was done fairly well. Imagine people getting such low reputation due to constantly killing people that they can only be "safe" in Linwood... a place where others are unsafe. There are a lot of differnt ways to go forward with something like that.
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daedroth
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby daedroth » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:42 am

I think a warning for the pker when they attack a new player. The attacks doesnt go through first time, they are given a warning "this is a new player... blah blah blah". Then they can choose to carry on or stop.
I like to think that no one would repeat pk a new player, maybe not even pk them in the first place.

The main thing I found annoying yesterday incident was the hypocrisy of the person doing the pking, not the actual pking. I remember salty tears in clan chat from the pker when they were the target of repeat pking (and it wasnt as bad as what he did). Seriously if you don't like something happening to you, don't do it to someone else, or if you must, suck it up when it happens to you.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Aftershock
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby Aftershock » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:50 am

The level limit is probably the best option but you could gangbang it with the 1% EXP loss (for all) and notoriety system idea. After all, 25ers have already made it so they should run more risk.

Regarding real newbs though, maybe have everything between Canopia and Bityrn (would obviously mean the Kakegi too) NOPK since they can probably be there until a good level. You can start the level limits at 9 this way and they won't really feel it. Only those who decide to venture past before they are experienced enough will feel any wrath.

The game is PK and people need to just deal with it. A lot of people when they die start paging the killer and just make it worse or they run right back to where they died. No wonder you got killed 10 times?
Aftershock

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Ohko
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby Ohko » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:55 am

I've always campaigned for keeping the experience lost for levelers and add some sort of penalty for 25ers PKing. I like a few of the ideas that's been brought up in this discussion. Something that hasn't been brought up yet is increasing the PK protection level from 16 to 20 for newbies without a 25er. This way they aren't completely shielded against PKing but gives them better survivability before they're targetted.

I do like the infamy system, we can probably combine that with the paragon point system already in place. You have to do good deeds (quests/protect/pkk/etc) to restore a neutral standing or higher. I would still add some kind of experience lost system to 25ers even if we have some sort of infamy/bounty system.
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Terron
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby Terron » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:55 pm

pkk dont work. u can just have your friends kill u.

infamy is already ingame. take your pick tyrargo or piddy.
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S0mveraa
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby S0mveraa » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:11 pm

anthriel wrote:@aduka/zombeh
There is already a difference between leveling in an arena and leveling in the wild: ie the arena is like 30% slower. Most ppl who play are time poor. Exp loss means that if a pker is repeatedly killing you, not only do you lose time not being able to level but you also can lose more xp than you gain (eg even when there was a 3 deaths before immunity type system). That’s the point at which most time-poor casual gamers decide to play something else rather than EO and this game then suffers. The reward for leveling outside town is faster exp. Risk is you could also get held up by pkers and lose gold/pots etc. Adding more risk to the pk victim than this is likely to frustrate time poor players and lose ppl to toxicity (“you annoyed me so now I’m gonna repeatedly hunt u and get my superguild to KOS you etc etc”).

There does need to be some risk on the pker side though, and for this I do like the idea of your infamy system (although many of the consequences you suggested could be more complicated to implement). I suggest therefore adding an ‘infamy’ element to my previous ‘PK license’ suggestion... ie A pker gains infamy while holding a license and that affects how much he needs to pay when buying his next license. Eg if base license costs say 10k, a person with low infamy may only need to pay 10-12k to buy a replacement if they die... but someone with lots of infamy may need to pay 30k to replace it etc (and the new license would also be worth 30k to the person who PKKs the infamous pker). Hence a true bounty system would now be in place - but one that is simple and not dependent on game-generated gold (which is easily a abusable). Peace



Pking license wouldn't stop chain killing, if you can already kill the same person over and over, what gooddoes it do them if you're carrying around 30 mins worth for farming around with you? Sounds more like a license to keep up the chain kills, very little risk if your only loss is a little gold.


And even with an infamy system that makes you sit in a limbo, even if your friends are pking you to get rid of it..you still have to sit in limbo.

Terron
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby Terron » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:19 pm

yeah. 25ers should drop like 5% exp for killing same person too much in an hour. this typically dont happen much unless the target is like level 16. in which case you shouldnt be chain killing it anyway.

face the facts here, if xp loss comes back, people will hide when training. not just run back to the same trail bandit 15x because of nothing to lose.


25ers with exp lower than their normal, should perform equally as bad as the exp. 95% exp u do 95% as good as normal, 80% exp, 80% damage, life,mr and hit rate and so on.
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JadeFalcon
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby JadeFalcon » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:27 pm

Right, now I PK a little bit so here my 2cents.



I’ll branch this in two:



1. People with no 25ers on their account should be automatically considered “new players” and get 0 exp loss, 0 item loss, and a big marker on their character saying the account is new. There are reasons for this:
a) Genuinely new players don’t know how to play. It takes time to learn, and they shouldn’t be punished for this
i. Returning players that don’t have 25ers probably are rusty, so Ill class them as new

b) As we can no longer have multiple accounts, abuse of this should be minimum
c) Having a big marker saying the account is new does help; I’d probably not attack anyone with this.



2. People with 25ers on their account
a) No Mercy. I am sorry a) this is a PK game, b) you should be smart enough to use pots, fade, sneak, water to break tracks, or just level in weird places. I mean sorry to say this, but some people are so predictable and lazy it doesn’t even take effort to track them – they level in the same goddamn places, everytime.
i. I do think obfuscation pots should be 30second duration, 15secs is not enough to run safely from a town, to a leveling spot.

b) People that get killed repeatedly, we already have a PK limit don’t we?
i. Fine, lower this to two PK per hour if you will, so I can kill them, then rekill them when they go back to the same exact mob to level (yes, I have done this)

c) Deliberate griefing
i. Ban hammer. I know the argument is that we are not enough to ban, but the issue I think is that in an effort “not to ban” people, we have made some nicer people quit.
ii. Make a “bestow protection” command for staffers, which they can give to certain characters that they see fit, to make people immune to pking. So for example, if I want to grief Nitehawk, some staffer could come and “protect Nitehawk from Tyrargo” and I could not kill him for 24h, for example. If Nitehawk /ignore me, then it would be nearly as if I didn’t exist for him.
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anthriel
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Re: PK system and XP

Postby anthriel » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:30 pm

S0mveraa wrote:
anthriel wrote:@aduka/zombeh
There is already a difference between leveling in an arena and leveling in the wild: ie the arena is like 30% slower. Most ppl who play are time poor. Exp loss means that if a pker is repeatedly killing you, not only do you lose time not being able to level but you also can lose more xp than you gain (eg even when there was a 3 deaths before immunity type system). That’s the point at which most time-poor casual gamers decide to play something else rather than EO and this game then suffers. The reward for leveling outside town is faster exp. Risk is you could also get held up by pkers and lose gold/pots etc. Adding more risk to the pk victim than this is likely to frustrate time poor players and lose ppl to toxicity (“you annoyed me so now I’m gonna repeatedly hunt u and get my superguild to KOS you etc etc”).

There does need to be some risk on the pker side though, and for this I do like the idea of your infamy system (although many of the consequences you suggested could be more complicated to implement). I suggest therefore adding an ‘infamy’ element to my previous ‘PK license’ suggestion... ie A pker gains infamy while holding a license and that affects how much he needs to pay when buying his next license. Eg if base license costs say 10k, a person with low infamy may only need to pay 10-12k to buy a replacement if they die... but someone with lots of infamy may need to pay 30k to replace it etc (and the new license would also be worth 30k to the person who PKKs the infamous pker). Hence a true bounty system would now be in place - but one that is simple and not dependent on game-generated gold (which is easily a abusable). Peace



Pking license wouldn't stop chain killing, if you can already kill the same person over and over, what gooddoes it do them if you're carrying around 30 mins worth for farming around with you? Sounds more like a license to keep up the chain kills, very little risk if your only loss is a little gold.


And even with an infamy system that makes you sit in a limbo, even if your friends are pking you to get rid of it..you still have to sit in limbo.


There’s nothing stopping chain killing now. At least with PK license system they victim has some recourse if they call in their clannies on a faded chanter to help trap the pker or something (ie they could kill the pker n split the gold reward from the dropped license). If 10-30k isn’t enough disincentive/risk then up the amount. The system should work. I doubt even Tyrargo would keep trying to chain kill someone solo if he stood a chance at losing 100-200k or something. Shrugs. In any case implementing something like Exp loss doesn’t stop chain killing either. Even if the 25er has exp loss they will die a lot less than the non-25er and therefore it will still favour them if they want to chain kill / grief someone (they can also regain their buffer quicker cos they have more stamina etc). Meanwhile the exp loss will hurt the victims more and many of these may feel like quitting if there is no mechanisms that meaningfully empower them to either avoid or retaliate against their persecutors. I’m not saying pk license is a perfect system, but it’s a simple mechanism that gives a good amount of automated balance of risk/reward. You’d need something else to stop intentional hardcore harassment (eg like JFs “bestow protection” idea which I like if there was a way to ensure staffers had strict guidelines only to use it on newbie accounts etc so it can’t be abused etc). Peace.


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