Monks/Ninjas

[Reaper]

5 attacks
MR Bonus
Dodge Bonus
Armor Bonus
Self Heal(out of combat)

There is a reason everyone is making a Ninja...they are OP and have been OP. I'm not saying they can't be beaten, but they are extremely powerful compared to other classes. They have no weaknesses. They are good for pvp, pking, oads, and events.

There was a huge uproar when I won two KoTh's on my Death Mage resulting in a nerf that was so bad that DM's are pretty much a joke now and no one really uses them. All the while Ninjas repeatedly win KoTH, several 3 times in a row...and that doesn't bother anyone?

Yes, I am butthurt over this if that is what you are thinking reading this. That aside, there really needs to be something done about Ninjas.

Suggestions:

No dodge bonus. Why do they even have this? It's like giving them two agi to dodge. So if someone makes a dwarf they get even more armor, more MR, tons of health, and 22 agi for dodge.

No 5 attacks. Once again, why do they have this? They should have 4 attacks like everyone else. I don't even care if the damage is raised, 5 attacks is a bigger advantage than more damage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't expect anything to actually change, but I found it hard to believe no one has made a post about this yet.

Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible if I am wrong about the dodge bonus being 5%. This is just what I gathered from people.

[Folder]

Mathematically speaking 5 attacks with lower damage is worse than 4 attacks with higher damage. Going to 4 attacks w/ higher base damage would be a buff to ninjas.

They may need rebalancing in general though. Maybe the dodge bonus is not a bad idea.

[Tucker]

5 attacks
MR Bonus
Dodge Bonus
Armor Bonus
Self Heal(out of combat)

There is a reason everyone is making a Ninja...they are OP and have been OP. I'm not saying they can't be beaten, but they are extremely powerful compared to other classes. They have no weaknesses. They are good for pvp, pking, oads, and events.

There was a huge uproar when I won two KoTh's on my Death Mage resulting in a nerf that was so bad that DM's are pretty much a joke now and no one really uses them. All the while Ninjas repeatedly win KoTH, several 3 times in a row...and that doesn't bother anyone?

Yes, I am butthurt over this if that is what you are thinking reading this. That aside, there really needs to be something done about Ninjas.

Suggestions:

No dodge bonus. Why do they even have this? It's like giving them two agi to dodge. So if someone makes a dwarf they get even more armor, more MR, tons of health, and 22 agi for dodge.

No 5 attacks. Once again, why do they have this? They should have 4 attacks like everyone else. I don't even care if the damage is raised, 5 attacks is a bigger advantage than more damage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't expect anything to actually change, but I found it hard to believe no one has made a post about this yet.

Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible if I am wrong about the dodge bonus being 5%. This is just what I gathered from people.

First and foremost: yes, they're strong and they're easily the strongest class when considering all things together. They honestly aren't overpowered in any one way.

Ninjas are a very delicate balance since they're not the best class at one thing but they are the jack-of-all-trades. They're not the best class for 1v1 pvp, 6v6 pvp, pve oad's, and certainly not for moshes. They're just very highly ranked for most things which makes them a very strong class. Ninjas are also the easiest class to level from what I have heard and experienced. The difference between 3/4 attacks and 4/5 attacks is like 5% making them stronger dps earlier than later paired with meditate and dodge rate makes them a very very simple easy level. It's the smartest class to make first right now honestly since it can do anything somewhat well.

Part of the reason we see a shitload of them is because they're strong but also because they're the best 1st 25er. I have one 25er still and its a Ninja - when I rolled him I had no idea of the meta and if they were strong vs weak, I just thought it made sense to go for a flexible class on my first crit.

So if someone makes a dwarf they get even more armor, more MR, tons of health, and 22 agi for dodge.

(disclaimer burd can correct me if im wrong but this is based of his info I've dug up and saved)
It doesn't work like that for any of the class changes to dodge rate and hit rate. It calculates at the end of the formula meaning higher dodge rates benefit more than lower. A 19 agi dwarf being attacked by a 23 agi saury will have a .344 which is a bonus of .024 from the 7.5% bonus or 1.2 agi. On the flippy floppy a 23 agi saury being attacked by a 19 agi dwarf/horc will have a dodgerate of .516 which is a bonus of .036 which is like 1.8 agi or so. This same thing applies to barbs dodge rate and knights hitate buff.

Mathematically speaking 5 attacks with lower damage is worse than 4 attacks with higher damage. Going to 4 attacks w/ higher base damage would be a buff to ninjas.

I guess it depends on the damage buffed, but I think if kept the same ratio it would not be a buff. Roundhouse chances would like overtake any bonuses you might see to shit like stamina dump rate and burst speed which are all important to consider - they're one of the big reasons slayers are huge in group fights. The ability to kill targets before they can pot or get heals because the burst is so much faster than other classes.

A Ninja hitting a roundhouse with equal agi (.4 hitrate) has like a 6.4% chance (in a string of three attacks, it'll be higher in practice since #1 can fail but #2 can hit resetting the string to be 2-4) to hit a roundhouse with is an important damage bonus to consider. In three rounds ninja would have 4 opportunities to hit that roundhouse or a 1/4 shot roughly (again simplified so higher in practice). With three rounds at 5 attacks you have 5 opportunities which is a non-zero damage bonus when damage is scaled equally for the number of attacks and compared to 4 stam ninjas. This only would apply to zerkers and ninjas who have a successful attack string damage bonus proc system in place.

All that shit aside leave their attacks at five, leave their A.C. alone, if you wanna give them a slight nerf hit their dodge bonus from 7.5 to 5%. Like I've said in a different balancing thread I don't think we need to nerf much in this game but should instead focus on buffing the classes, races, and items that need it since a little bit of powercreep would be completely fine as the game is now.

[NiteHawk]

What nerf are you talking about on DM's? I don't recall any hard nerfs to them except the whole leech not giving something like 240 HP back per round which was way too high. DM's need something else.

I do agree with NInjas being a bit op though. They could probably do with a small change.

[-Z-]

Whens the last time a Ninja won a KotH? I normally see elemental elders or cavs winning or having the streak, my dwarf ninja doesn't feel op at all.

[Lateralus]

Whens the last time a Ninja won a KotH? I normally see elemental elders or cavs winning or having the streak, my dwarf ninja doesn't feel op at all.

A dwarf ninja got streak last night on koth (which is often a better indicator than who wins it). A monk won jr koth 2 weeks in a row up until this week. I am not saying they are in the same tier as druids (none are) but they are prob tied for second with slayers? they are not only 2 or 3 in 1v1 but prob 1/2 in group fights as well as 1/2 in pve.

[-Z-]

A ninja tied with a 3streak win last night lol. Jr Koth an Ele druid got an 11streak kill and victory.

[Lateralus]

A ninja tied with a 3streak win last night lol. Jr Koth an Ele druid got an 11streak kill and victory.

Like I said they are not on the same level as druids but they are still above and beyond 9 other classes. I would put them at a number 2 seeing they almost have slayer output with 10-15% better mr than slayers. If you put 20 wis on say a dwarf or de monk they end up a ele Druid to casters. Even lizard ninjas have a good chance to beat most casters besides gnome.


Druids and even more so ele druids are leagues ahead of everyone else including monks and slayers. Thing is the only classes that stand to beat a Druid are monk slayer and maybe a high end cav. Coming from an event runner and player.

[Tucker]

A ninja tied with a 3streak win last night lol. Jr Koth an Ele druid got an 11streak kill and victory.

Like I said they are not on the same level as druids but they are still above and beyond 9 other classes. I would put them at a number 2 seeing they almost have slayer output with 10-15% better mr than slayers. If you put 20 wis on say a dwarf or de monk they end up a ele Druid to casters. Even lizard ninjas have a good chance to beat most casters besides gnome.


Druids and even more so ele druids are leagues ahead of everyone else including monks and slayers. Thing is the only classes that stand to beat a Druid are monk slayer and maybe a high end cav. Coming from an event runner and player.

Yeah a drakeblood Cav, Saury Slayer, and Saury Ninja all have a very close change or even an edge to winning from the math I've done when fighting into an Ele Druid/Elder. The Slayer usually wouldn't but the rules now have no FF's so they do now.

I was part of the 11 streak with a Knight and hit 5/21 at higher agi than the cat morphed druid whereas he hit for 13/24 so I blame druids being bugged lol