Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Change the backstab mechanic?

Poll ended at Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:37 am

No! Moving back and forth is OK.
11
44%
Yes! Change it!
14
56%
 
Total votes: 25
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Styx
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby Styx » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:01 am

-1st action
/hide
1 to 2 second pause
-gives time for /search and Priest and I'm learning on the 2 sec side cause a party of 3 slayers with 1 backstab would instant kill almost not to mention the 2nd backstab

-2nd action
/backstab playerx

In leveling it is very possible to backstab with macros programmed, to backstab with I'm guessing .25 sec to .5 sec, which is doable. Even the npc have a better attack time for a heal Mac compared to a player.

And when the attacker leaves the attacke is trying to attack, by the time it's seen the attacke don't have the time to heal or any action anyways. The backstab time needs adjusted higher imo.

Dammage vales should remain the same.

And after a couple weeks reevaluate the times etc to double check variables.

Edit, I agree with time based on int, high int for fast backstab. This will give debate over high int or high wis , fast backstab, or more magic resis

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NiteHawk
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:02 am

JadeFalcon wrote:I vote no.
Assassins are supposed to be that, killers on 1vs1. They dont need to be good in PVE.
I think this might be an implicit nerf, since high Int chars will totally find the Slayers and break BS.
Also, i can easily drop 2 BS in 1,1.5 seconds, so...

1.5 seconds yeah probably. Let's do a test though.

But the delay (as I just talked about too) will be between the hides instead of between the hide/attack. So should be similar to what it is now in the regards to how long you are hidden. So it would be /hide /attack 'delay here' /hide attack.

They are rough to level, and a lot of people seem to pick them as a first char. The comment to newbies that you shouldn't pick an assassin as a first character is a silly one, at least to me.

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Styx
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby Styx » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:08 am

Side note, I think monsters int is set to high, if im 20 int Thief I shouldn't be found very quickly by a snake. Just as an example and not tested.

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daedroth
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby daedroth » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:14 am

I said yes.
I prefer the delay between hides, rather than the attack (what Tucker said).
I would still like to see a critical strike thing for their normal attacks. I dont think they should be completely toothless when ff'd, makes sense from a lore perspective *coughs*.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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daedroth
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby daedroth » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:16 am

Folder wrote:Voted for change,

I kinda like the idea of INT making a difference in re-hide time. <20 STR slayers are currently, well, trash and maybe this could be an incentive to help make them a little more viable.

Yes to a /search penalty. In practice this only will be happening to slayers "double" hiding, but I think that's fine.


Yes and no to the INT thing. Problem is then they have a further stat spread which will make them weaker (WIS would likely be the sacrifice... this might actually help lower WIS races, since I would think, well my MR would suck anyway).
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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NiteHawk
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:18 am

Styx wrote:Side note, I think monsters int is set to high, if im 20 int Thief I shouldn't be found very quickly by a snake. Just as an example and not tested.


Entirely different issue.

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NiteHawk
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:19 am

daedroth wrote:
Folder wrote:Voted for change,

I kinda like the idea of INT making a difference in re-hide time. <20 STR slayers are currently, well, trash and maybe this could be an incentive to help make them a little more viable.

Yes to a /search penalty. In practice this only will be happening to slayers "double" hiding, but I think that's fine.


Yes and no to the INT thing. Problem is then they have a further stat spread which will make them weaker (WIS would likely be the sacrifice... this might actually help lower WIS races, since I would think, well my MR would suck anyway).



Int is already needed for how well you hide though too. Just another add to it. And I am not saying it would be a massive difference, but a little perk. I think you'll all worried with 10 int you would have to wait 5 seconds but that wouldn't be the case.

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NiteHawk
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:42 am

I recorded alot from first hide to backstab, ignoring alot of the slow ones and some I know that were bunked, Tyr and Dues seemed to be generally fastest

Your examples however seemed to be an average around 1.05 second (this is actually a second for BOTH attacks.) with a higher 'slower' end of 1.5 seconds when I removed the failed stuff. So you're actually right. 1 second would probably be close to the server limit too in that regard so you were going pretty quick. There was a couple instances where you did 0.97-1.0 but most were a tad higher than one second, around 1.02 to 1.08.


Dues was a little slower, averaging around 1.2 and a higher end of 1.7. He varied more though vs you, but the lowest was around 1.1 from what I saw.

So the base should probably be around half a second. Though more people would benefit from this I think but we can adjust it as we see fit afterwards based on how it works.

Again I didn't use ALL attacks, I removed a good chunk of them anyways. Was looking for mostly the main chunk of faster ones.

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Eld
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby Eld » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:05 am

That testing highlights another couple of important aspects that should be considered:

1. Different players are faster under the current system
2. There's variance in the current system due to mistyping or whatever

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Inverno
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Re: Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

Postby Inverno » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:07 am

JadeFalcon wrote:I vote no.
Assassins are supposed to be that, killers on 1vs1. They dont need to be good in PVE.
I think this might be an implicit nerf, since high Int chars will totally find the Slayers and break BS.
Also, i can easily drop 2 BS in 1,1.5 seconds, so...


Same here. They excel at PVP... dont need to be good at PVE.
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