Improving Zerkers

How should we change zerkers? Pick up to three options if applicable.

Poll ended at Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:58 am

Option 1
0
No votes
Option 2
12
32%
Option 3 (Not applicable with Option 4)
5
14%
Option 4 (Not applicable with Option 3)
7
19%
Option 5
5
14%
Option 6 (Not applicable with any other option)
8
22%
 
Total votes: 37
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NiteHawk
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Improving Zerkers

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:58 am

Barbarians are a high risk high damage class. They take in more damage, but they should deal more damage too. The claim is right now that even though they deal high damage, it isn't enough to use them vs lets say, ninjas which have similar damage with roundhouse BUT have MR and more dodge. I don't want to nyx the negative effects because I WANT them to be different. Otherwise they are just another ninja with face paint which is pointless, you might as well remove the whole class completely if that was the case.

We talked about this but I want to poll it now. Here are some options.

1. Leave it the same as it is.
2. As they lose health, they deal a little more damage. up to 6%. This means at 50% health they would have a 3% damage bonus. Not alot, but is would more be a 'small perk' in duels and other areas (Guardian protected low health zerkers for example dealing an extra 10-16 more damage)
3. Adjust rage scaling per successful rage attack. At the moment it is a set 40% 3 times. Instead, it could be 40% first time, 45% second time, and 50% third time. Or 40%, 50%, 60%. Obviously this isn't so common in PVP but if it happens it would help. (Ignoring option 4.)
4. Adjust rage scaling to a flat 50% rather then 40% (Ignoring option 3.)
5. Flurrying could break armor, removing a percentage for X seconds. Maybe stackable with each flurry.
6. Invalid with the other options, but a active system instead and add the ability to flurry when you want, and you can build up/save flurries (Though they would go down over time or when you move). For example check this:
.
If this is the way we go, we need to talk about what skillsets they would have, obviously Flurry, but they could have something else that maybe breaks a targets armor, the higher armor the more 'break' or a rage attack that lowers maybe AGI or AC for a little more damage. (Do not pick with any other option, this is a complete change.)



I'm interested in your votes and what you pick

Cyrus
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Cyrus » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:20 am

I voted 3 and 6.
I wanted to go for 3 because right now flurries dont add much damage and it'll feel nice the 1 time out of 100 when that 3rd flurry connects.
Regarding 6, I purely chose it because right now zerkers are a F1 pushing class. No skill no nothing needed to play 1. So I chose it only because it adds a tiny bit of individual skill to an otherwise braindead class. But I don't think that option is the problem solver.

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Folder
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Folder » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:58 am

Chose #6 because I am a fan of more active systems in the longterm. I feel like numbers wise zerkers already hit pretty hard and they don't really need to have a flat dmg boost. If we did that you'd want /flurry or /rage (as examples) to be toggles - if you always had to type /flurry to flurry it would make macros a nightmare. Toggle on/off is fine though.
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NiteHawk
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:00 am

By the way, by 'break armor' I mean reduced armor. Similar to FF, but based on total AC, higher AC, more AC reduced in a sense. So someone with cloth armor if they get flurried on, they might lose only 5 ac for 30 seconds while a knight might lose 20 ac for 30 seconds.

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Styx
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Styx » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:27 am

Breaking armor is a more interesting concept cause it will give a Barbarian a unique ability for their class.

Edit, could this percent be based on int or chr, one of the unused stats to give more choices of which stats to choose, ie do I need more int so it lowers ac longer, or should I go with more wis for magic resis. It will make lings and the balanced races more viable as an option.

Rodeo
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Rodeo » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:25 am

Let them have a stun chance 1to 3 sec chance on an flurry.

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Tucker
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Tucker » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:44 pm

I like all of the options tbh haha

Option 2 and 3 together might be really good and get the class in good shape since theyre both small buffs alone but together would be enough to make the class scary again :D

I love the idea of the rage cooldown and AC reduction as well as well as what Rodeo said that they could even proc a small duration stun on rage hits, however it might be wiser to balance the class first and then break out brand new innovative mechanics. Also I'm thinking that the Rage cooldown thing could be even potentially better suited on another class or a new one. Same with some of the on proc ideas like bashes, roots, DoT stuff, status effecting shit and unique attack modifiers like rage or roundhouse could all be worked on once the buff/debuff UI is implemented. There's a shitload of cool mechanics you can add but we definitely wanna see them spread out so that Zerkers aren't top DPS in game (as they should be - up there with Slayers) and have the only armor reduction feature or the only bash as well. The more spread out those unique features are the more class diversity we'll see and the more interesting the game'll be.

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Lateralus
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Lateralus » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:24 pm

I think options 2 3 and 4 work best and would be easiest to implement. I think 2 sounds the most interesting and unique that also fits the class. It might not give them as much of an edge as 3 and 4. I wouldn't mind seeing it scale a bit more crazy like 2-10%. 2% at 50% health and say 10% at 10% health.

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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Cyrus » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:38 pm

Lateralus wrote:I think options 2 3 and 4 work best and would be easiest to implement. I think 2 sounds the most interesting and unique that also fits the class. It might not give them as much of an edge as 3 and 4. I wouldn't mind seeing it scale a bit more crazy like 2-10%. 2% at 50% health and say 10% at 10% health.


I just don't see the benefit in this. Based on personal experience, guardians are rarely used in fights nowadays.

Especially with the way pot timers work, keeping yourself at 50% hp to do 5% extra damage is just completely illogical. Sure it may be better for EXPing where you know how much damage the mobs do on average and when to drink a pot to stay at 50%, but PVP wise, guardians would need to become better for PVP. And then, why would you use the guard to protect Zerker when you have a priest or chanter to protect whose presence aids far more than an extra 5% damage?

And if you say, ok, make it 20% extra damage, then you have the problem that they would become absolute beasts at PVE. And zerkers already do very well at PVE...
Last edited by Cyrus on Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tucker
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Re: Improving Zerkers

Postby Tucker » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:13 pm

Cyrus wrote:
Lateralus wrote:I think options 2 3 and 4 work best and would be easiest to implement. I think 2 sounds the most interesting and unique that also fits the class. It might not give them as much of an edge as 3 and 4. I wouldn't mind seeing it scale a bit more crazy like 2-10%. 2% at 50% health and say 10% at 10% health.


I just don't see the benefit in this. Based on personal experience, guardians are rarely used in fights nowadays. The only time I ever see 1 is when 2 OAD teams fight at flaming salamander where a guardian has to protect the priest to prevent stun.

Especially with the way pot timers work, keeping yourself at 50% hp to do 5% extra damage is just completely illogical. Sure it may be better for EXPing where you know how much damage the mobs do on average and when to drink a pot to stay at 50%, but PVP wise, guardians would need to become better for PVP. And then, why would you use the guard to protect Zerker when you have a priest or chanter to protect whose presence aids far more than an extra 5% damage?

And if you say, ok, make it 20% extra damage, then you have the problem that they would become absolute beasts at PVE. And zerkers already do very well at PVE...


That would give another purpose to Guardians and maybe see them used more which is cool. Also I don't think you have to leave yourself at low hp all the time, you can, but it's a high risk high reward play. I think that this is such a minor buff at proposed levels (0-6%) that you could safely pair it with another buff and still not be too strong.

I agree with your sentiment that 20% would be waaaay too much, but 8-10% might be still not too overpowered. I like the idea of two minor buffs like the lowered hp at 6% max or so and then adding option 3. Both are minor buffs that together make for a pretty strong change to the class.


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