Race Stat Changes

[Cyrus]

I mostly like #9 but something to consider here:

Dark elf:
20 22 19 20 20 16

Half Elf:
19 21 19 20 20 21

Human:
20 20 20 20 20 20

Elf:
18 22 18 21 21 22


Dark elf kinda catapults to best priest class, imo at least. The choice between elf and dark elf is good, but there's no real choice between dark elf, half elf, and human as dark elf is simply better. Something to think about!


edit: perhaps consider lowering int/wis on dark elves? They are the melee elves. Stronger and faster so I don't see why they should have same int/wis as half elves.

Agreeing with Jake, int shouldnt be so high on a traditional melee class.

[daedroth]

I mostly like #9 but something to consider here:

Dark elf:
20 22 19 20 20 16

Half Elf:
19 21 19 20 20 21

Human:
20 20 20 20 20 20

Elf:
18 22 18 21 21 22


Dark elf kinda catapults to best priest class, imo at least. The choice between elf and dark elf is good, but there's no real choice between dark elf, half elf, and human as dark elf is simply better. Something to think about!


edit: perhaps consider lowering int/wis on dark elves? They are the melee elves. Stronger and faster so I don't see why they should have same int/wis as half elves.

That is a good point. Although making them lower INT would make them dumber than us humans... but... for balance it might need to be done.
I would say +1 END -1 INT though.
Then they would be +2 INT over Goblins, -1 INT to Human/Helf and -2 INT to Elf. If you go with #9, which still gets my vote.

[Styx]

Why not make a race and or modify a race, human in this example to have more end, so it balances the end and fighter types

21 is average agi, human us 20 which is below average therefor human or another racell should have a 3rd option as melee with high end

Or change agi, or change etc

[-Z-]

There is only so much you can do with stats. What if we added a 3rd dimension to tweak and adjust NiteHawk?

Adjusting Stam recover time for indivual races would add a 3rd dimension instead of being 2d with being restricted to just stat adjustments.

For example Lings could have quicker stam recovery time (About half the rate of haste or w/e) while H/o's have a slightly slower stam recover time. Just thinking outside the box. Then when it comes time to balance you can have more variables to adjust to balance races than just a black and white +/- stats.

[Lateralus]

There is only so much you can do with stats. What if we added a 3rd dimension to tweak and adjust NiteHawk?

Adjusting Stam recover time for indivual races would add a 3rd dimension instead of being 2d with being restricted to just stat adjustments.

For example Lings could have quicker stam recovery time (About half the rate of haste or w/e) while H/o's have a slightly slower stam recover time. Just thinking outside the box. Then when it comes time to balance you can have more variables to adjust to balance races than just a black and white +/- stats.

It's a good idea but they actually tried Stan refresh rate and I think halfling were super op. I was on break but I don't think it lasted long?

[anthriel]

There is only so much you can do with stats. What if we added a 3rd dimension to tweak and adjust NiteHawk?

Adjusting Stam recover time for indivual races would add a 3rd dimension instead of being 2d with being restricted to just stat adjustments.

For example Lings could have quicker stam recovery time (About half the rate of haste or w/e) while H/o's have a slightly slower stam recover time. Just thinking outside the box. Then when it comes time to balance you can have more variables to adjust to balance races than just a black and white +/- stats.

Interesting idea! Not sure how it would work out in terms of practical balancing and it may need a lot of work/tweaking - but it's the kind of 'out of the box' thinking that I like

------------------------------------------

On another note, just wanted to point out a few things with where the discussion is up to:

1. I kind of agree that DEs seem quite good now (it's good they have been clarified as more of the 'meelee elf') but this does mean some balance changes. Folder is right that their current 20 22 19 20 20 16 profile does catapult them to being top candidate for priest. Reducing their INT from 20 to 18 does help but i have seen a few DE chanters b4 etc which again would highlight the need for compensatory racial respecs. I also think tha even with 18int, DEs with their pool of allocation points would probably outshine Goblins entirely (it's a 1str/1end tradeoff, but DEs have more allocation points to access MR through Wis or HP via Chr.. which brings me to my next point)

2. Lat's idea to shift 1end = 50hp in proposal 9 could be a good one (I'm not sure I haven't really done any detailed comparison calculations), but everyone should be aware that it does generally mean that using charisma as a means of catching up additional HP is now going to be more efficient. Having 13 chr used to give average of 36 HP which is approx 60% of an end point when 1end = 60hp... Now at 1end = 50hp it does mean that the investment in 3chr achieves more like avg 72% of an end point. If chr scaling is left as is under proposal 9, it may conceivably mean that Ling/Elf bards/rangers could end up with more HP than most Humans/Gobs etc and be considerably closer in HP to Horcs/Dwarfs than they were when 1end = 60hp. It will almost certainly mean (as mentioned in my above example) that Gobs are outshadowed by DEs who have the extra allocation points to surpass Goblin HP by pumping charisma... Therefore may want to consider whether Goblins need a +1 end (ie 21 end) to help them excel DEs at something (and give them abit closer to a rok old-Goblin feel lol).

Peace.

Edit - small mistake amended

[Dan]

I can agree with them having a bit less int but taking away wis means it kinda takes druids away from the race.

How about if you took say 2int and put it in chr? That way they might actually make an ok ranger as well?

Dark elf:
20 22 19 18 20 18

They won't be an ok ranger, but will be an ok knight.

[Lateralus]

While we are looking at agi I think we might wanna look at int and it's role in healing spells. I really don't feel like it makes a huge impact maybe dropping the base and making the range a little larger would help. There are lots of dwarf healers and I've spoken to people that don't even max int on healers just because it's not a huge deal for heal damage. I know for a fact most guards get away with around 15int which is fine but the heal diff range seems very small from 15-20int. I think it's a big reason why we don't see many gnome healers (hp too).

I couldn't find the breakdown anywhere but I'd love to see 15-22 int avg heal amount listed somewhere for heal and aid if possible.

Honestly taking 1 int off de doesn't even seem like it would effect them at all as healers.

[Folder]

Lat, as always, has good points about INT. I don't know the scaling for heals at all, my idea for lowering DE int was just that without some nerf (or buff to other races, lol that road again) they instantly become very good casters and certainly the best priests. INT may need to be lowered more, or make INT matter more, or both.

[Styx]

Goblin will have natural magic resis, where as dark don't

The int scalling for Priest does need done, many just use base int on dwarf, no need for max int, widen the spread of int to heal

And yes on guardians, with 20 int on a guard they should have a high amount of heal, after all they gave up wis over int to heal. And most do max wis just to protect themselves.

If a dark elf is to be set as melee, then buff the end appropriately, since no natural magic resis

WhIle at this, has the int values for caster dammage been in discussion. Shall int for caster be same at gnome int for max of should it be scalled more, if we scalled blast more so, and necos as well?

If you want the 3rd diminsion, ie stamina change, could allocation points be used to reduce stam time? 1 allocation to equal x amount of reduced stam, this could be a means of fighter types wanting the faster fight attack, but at a cost of wis etc