Race Stat Changes

[Lateralus]

I think prop 19 is good, except that orcs should probably get -1 end here? They don't really need a buff in any form and not nerfing their HP along with the heavy melee races is an oversight imo. Dwarf should have the HP advantage as they are the tanky race in theory.

Basically orcs are gaining 20hp which seems unnecessary.

Everything else seems in line to me.

Yea I mean it's either them gain 20 or lose 30? I think losing 30 is more fitting tbh. I do think str is more of the issue really just on slayer but I don't wanna open a can of worms so I guess that works.

[anthriel]

I think prop 19 is good, except that orcs should probably get -1 end here? They don't really need a buff in any form and not nerfing their HP along with the heavy melee races is an oversight imo. Dwarf should have the HP advantage as they are the tanky race in theory.

Basically orcs are gaining 20hp which seems unnecessary.

Everything else seems in line to me.

Yea I mean it's either them gain 20 or lose 30? I think losing 30 is more fitting tbh. I do think str is more of the issue really just on slayer but I don't wanna open a can of worms so I guess that works.

Well if ppl think horcs r too good I think it is much better they get -1end than -1str (cos Str is their major racial drawcard and 24 Str is all that separates them from the 23 Str saurians)

[Terron]

I think prop 19 is good, except that orcs should probably get -1 end here? They don't really need a buff in any form and not nerfing their HP along with the heavy melee races is an oversight imo. Dwarf should have the HP advantage as they are the tanky race in theory.

Basically orcs are gaining 20hp which seems unnecessary.

Everything else seems in line to me.

Yea I mean it's either them gain 20 or lose 30? I think losing 30 is more fitting tbh. I do think str is more of the issue really just on slayer but I don't wanna open a can of worms so I guess that works.

i agree with the lose 30 being more fitting. strength is not a problem at all on this game.

the comparative is slayer. slayer this slayer that. any character that hits 4x damage in 1 massive chunk is broken, let alone up to two times per round. strength is not making anything drastically OP except slayer.

break down the facts:
-slayers are the only class that can 2 shot someone.
-they hit 1x for 400% damage....
-they get a damage boost on top of that for 2 knives....
-they have no fear because nothing can 1 shot them back
-and even if a cav or something could round them the relative odds would be around .34X.34x.34x.34 which is 1.3% and not to mention they better hit high end damage all 4 times, no absorbs or blocks.
-even a 19 agi slayer has a 9% chance to kill 24 agi in 1 round. where it may take 5 rounds or more for you to kill it.
-slayers have an effective hit rate of 3-4x normal melee characters with that amount of damage in a single hit.

your whole culprit for imbalance is slayer. that class needs a rework with this system. either a lower scale damage, a hit rate penalty, damage being scaled with (str + agi)/2, a failure implement resulting in normal damage , a flat damage by level that is equal for all slayers then added to the normal melee damage for total damage(horc would still do more obviously) , or some other thing entirely. the scaling is so far off in comparison to other classes. slayers have near an 80% chance to kill you by round 3(saurian) or 4(horc)
its a joke, quit kidding yourself. with that kind of power they should run cloth and -50% hit points.

test some brigands, i bet theyd still kill most shit with 22 str 23 agi.

[Folder]

You're not wrong with any of that but the fact is that slayers are the ONLY class that can reliably solo PK. It's impossible on anything else as nothing else can do that much damage fast enough. Players, and this is not a judgment or anything, instantly run from PK but a slayer can knock them out with a lucky round.

Point is we need slayers and that high damage, else the only PKing that happens will be from groups and that hurts the solo player.

[Lateralus]

You're not wrong with any of that but the fact is that slayers are the ONLY class that can reliably solo PK. It's impossible on anything else as nothing else can do that much damage fast enough. Players, and this is not a judgment or anything, instantly run from PK but a slayer can knock them out with a lucky round.

Point is we need slayers and that high damage, else the only PKing that happens will be from groups and that hurts the solo player.

Yea I get that I'm fine with the damage but could see a set less hp or armor for sure. This is a totally diff topic than race tho for sure.

[-Z-]

I like proposal 19. As far as slayers being the only reliable pk class, this is true. Maby it'll change later down the road with a variant of root spells but til then slayers are the lvlers nightmares, everything else is a 2 square step to safety.

[Styx]

Not all slayers can 1 round. It depends on race choices etc, 20 str slayer , green dagger, 550ish with div max, so 1.1k life possible with div, so any 20 end alt can survive 2 bs even with div

However 25 str slayer up to 770? Figure the math. Why people pick horc

[Terron]

You're not wrong with any of that but the fact is that slayers are the ONLY class that can reliably solo PK. It's impossible on anything else as nothing else can do that much damage fast enough. Players, and this is not a judgment or anything, instantly run from PK but a slayer can knock them out with a lucky round.

Point is we need slayers and that high damage, else the only PKing that happens will be from groups and that hurts the solo player.

no you really dont, you dont need a solo pk class when group mechanics are fully available at anytime. the slayer aspect isnt even a challenge, it basically ignores the whole development system tap f1 f2 f3 f4 f1 f2 f3 f4(thats how i do it anyway) and watch a nub die 50% of the time or a 25 die 10%. and you wonder why people run from all pks. its the impossibility of winning vs a slayer and 500 potions in their inventory.

[Folder]

I don't actually know what you mean here. My point is that there are solo players who like to PK and a slayer is the class for them. I don't think that's a bad thing at all, and I actually think it would be bad if we removed that.

I said nothing about a challenge or wondering why people run from PKs.

[Terron]

what i mean is the game shouldn't have slayers in it yet.

i know the importance and magnitude of burst damage but, i dont see any reason why 1 class can run into a group of 6 and take 2 stabs at a pk then flee or try again and again drinking a few potion and leave when u start losing or succeed. the game is filling up with slayers the other classes have little use in comparison. couple for oads and some slayer "support" for group events, or potless 1v1s.

i like the class but i can see a real folly in the fact a saurian slayer for example can hit 2x in a round for 1200 damage at a 16+% success rate when other classes have between 1-3% to hit 4 stam, 6-7% for 3 stam , 16% for 2 stam. not to mention if they go 4 for 4 they still hit around the damage of 1 backstab.

the only relevance this has to the topic is you cannot balance race stats based on what classes do what.
it has to be treated in a flat comparison;
"example: not many like elf casters because they don't get x p p p p x with a +1 like other races do".
well thats a problem elf caster needs more points
lets check the top builds of the race and caste and see if more points creates imbalance.
no it doesnt, lets add a point.

that's how you balance race stats. what each class does with those stats is a problem with the class itself. if the game only had gnomes, slayer would be broken. if the game only had lings, slayer would be broken. if the game only had.........

proposal 19 has done most of this and needs added. game needs to get to a point where classes can be adjusted because of certain OP/UP factors. and hopefully before everyone is just a slayer.