Druid/Elder Druid

[NiteHawk]

On the topic of druids is there any point not to make an elemental druid atm?



Unmorph Cat Bear
Str 14 31.99 27.493
Agi 19 22.78 21.596
Ac 38 78 104
End 20 20 23.0336


Pretty much the best in every aspect (since agi doesnt matter much atm). As a player im not sure why id make anything besides an elemental.

I mean, I dunno if I really agree with you. Lings deal overall more damage because of HR. 25.3 agi and 26.2 str.

27.4 is about 147-196
26.3 is 142-189

So it's 5-7 damage more per hit.

AGI wise, 22.78 to 25.3. You're looking at 5.04% more dodge and 5.04% more HR.

There is a question about END, but that is more of the races fault I think, but doesn't really affect cat form. But yeah missing HP could be the link on why elementals feel better to use. Maybe they should have a base of 19 END.

[Reaper]

Oh gods pls don't nerf the elementals. I'm already 0/8 in 1v1 fights. The last thing I need is less health. Plus nerfing elemental health is horrible considering how bad their other stats are aside from making them druids that is.

[anthriel]

On the topic of druids is there any point not to make an elemental druid atm?



Unmorph Cat Bear
Str 14 31.99 27.493
Agi 19 22.78 21.596
Ac 38 78 104
End 20 20 23.0336


Pretty much the best in every aspect (since agi doesnt matter much atm). As a player im not sure why id make anything besides an elemental.

I mean, I dunno if I really agree with you. Lings deal overall more damage because of HR. 25.3 agi and 26.2 str.

27.4 is about 147-196
26.3 is 142-189

So it's 5-7 damage more per hit.

AGI wise, 22.78 to 25.3. You're looking at 5.04% more dodge and 5.04% more HR.

There is a question about END, but that is more of the races fault I think, but doesn't really affect cat form. But yeah missing HP could be the link on why elementals feel better to use. Maybe they should have a base of 19 END.

Isn't the correct comparison for Cat actually 32 STR (Ele) vs 26ish STR (Ling)?

My general observation tends to agree with Lat etc... Elemental is probably premier choice due to Agi being less significant, combined with high END/WIS potential of Elementals and how low INT (15 and under) don't tend to suffer much for it compared to elves/gnomes who invest in 17-18 INT...

In general the scaling of how much wisdom affects a Druid morph probably means a high wis Elemental can cover all their racial weaknesses (low Agi and Str) while still enjoying their racial strengths (higher End for spellcaster race)

That's my perception anyway

[Lateralus]

I mean, I dunno if I really agree with you. Lings deal overall more damage because of HR. 25.3 agi and 26.2 str.

27.4 is about 147-196
26.3 is 142-189

So it's 5-7 damage more per hit.

AGI wise, 22.78 to 25.3. You're looking at 5.04% more dodge and 5.04% more HR.

There is a question about END, but that is more of the races fault I think, but doesn't really affect cat form. But yeah missing HP could be the link on why elementals feel better to use. Maybe they should have a base of 19 END.

I think you are right this is more of an issue of agi and end balance i believe. Just looking at the stats you would say hmm more damage and almost 3agi compared to 3-4 more end seems like halflings might have the advantage but its not really the case. Im not saying elementals should have less but maybe look at how agi fairs? right now everyone knows agi doesnt matter much so pretty much everyone is making dwarfs for pretty much every class besides druid (elementals there) because agi doesnt matter much and wis needs to be high.

[Reaper]

I actually see where NH is coming from on the agi. If you make it matter too much it would just be reversed. Everyone would just play halflings. I think it does need to be increased, but it has to be a careful increase.


The biggest factor in a fight seems to be just plain luck. I tried to attack someone on my elemental elder and missed 10/12. I witnessed a HO slayer round 3 people in a row. I've missed 5 backstabs in a row on a 23 agi de vs a 19 agi HO. I think it is scenarios like these that make people believe agi isn't important. If you have a 8% better hit rate it sounds nice on paper, but there is still a 92% chance your gonna get hit or miss the same as the other guy. If he gets a ton more health and str or Mr...that 8% doesn't sound so great.

[anthriel]

I guess regarding the observations on Elementals in light of the other thread on dodge/hitrate/Agi, the reason they are probably the premier choice for Druid is because wisdom is their highest stat and they an still retain decent End despite pumping it. For gnomes who excel in Intelligence and halflings who excel in Agility, their +1 max in these stats over other races usually causes them to suffer penalty in End... Elementals suffer the penalty instead in Str and Agi, which is then more than adequately compensated for by the high Wis effect on their morph... So you end up with a super Str, decent Agi char with decent End, all due to the single stat of Wisdom. That is the reason Elemental Druids are premier/popular - because of the scale to which wisdom currently affects morph gain.

I'm not suggesting to nerf/change anything etc... Just pointing out that as a race/class combo under current mechanics they largely manage to cover almost all weaknesses whereas other classes are prone to having at least 1 remain (ie an Elemental Druid in morph have 24wis for MR, 22+ Agi for HR/dodge, 32 Str for damage and 20 End for HP etc and out of morph can still cast spells reasonably ok with 15int cos INT doesn't seem to matter that much). If this was to be balanced then the scaling of Wis on morph might need to bee re-examined but this would likely affect other races of Druid adversely too... It's probably just the fact that they can access 24 Wis and retain decent End that makes them so good as Druids

[daedroth]

^what he said.

[Lateralus]

Speaking of the 32 str.

Now that we can do decimal values for str can we just have str actually show what it is on morphed druids instead of an weirdly inflated number that doesn't really represent what the damage is and makes power useless on them?

[daedroth]

Speaking of the 32 str.

Now that we can do decimal values for str can we just have str actually show what it is on morphed druids instead of an weirdly inflated number that doesn't really represent what the damage is and makes power useless on them?

Aye, the STR thing is weird.
It would be better if the increase to STR from morph was less, but meant more.

[NiteHawk]

Speaking of the 32 str.

Now that we can do decimal values for str can we just have str actually show what it is on morphed druids instead of an weirdly inflated number that doesn't really represent what the damage is and makes power useless on them?

Aye, the STR thing is weird.
It would be better if the increase to STR from morph was less, but meant more.

Doesn't work like that, not a damage multiplier for no reason and honestly makes 0 sense to have 60 str druids. What a mess.

Now that we can do decimal values for str can we just have str actually show what it is on morphed druids instead of an weirdly inflated number that doesn't really represent what the damage is and makes power useless on them?

That's what AD is for. Why is power useless on them? Str will display what their current STR is, it's gonna stick to how it is. AD shows your average damage. I'm not even sure what you mean by that anyways, it is their STR; its not a random number? Making str display differently regardless for no reason is a hassle to adjust as the system doesn't work like that anyways.

Honestly, I think it's fine, its one decimal point, part of strength. if 1 strength gives you 6 damage, then 0.5 strength gives you 3 damage. Bonus strength is the same with spells, songs, etc. If I remove it from one, it removes from all. There is no damage multiplier bonus that happens on morph, and never will be.