Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

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NiteHawk
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:21 am

I put everything up for review so we'll talk/think about it shortly, thanks guys.

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daedroth
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby daedroth » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:58 am

I always half thought that thieves should have a -1 to hit, +1 to dodge.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Terron
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Terron » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:39 am

id figure your opponent would be at 0 bonus from agi when ur attacking him from "hidden". i dont think it should be hard to hit someone who doesn't know you are there. but thats my opinion lol. never seen assassin as much of a class but as more of a profession and in that line of work combat skills sneaking poisons and in certain cases armor would be most beneficial. trust me an orc with a battleaxe makes a fine assassin...
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

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daedroth
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby daedroth » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:37 am

One thing I find strange about slayers is that a max INT halfling and a max INT Human hide with the same skill (assuming they are the same level off course).

Options:
+/- for "size" (this would severely penalise horcs/sauria etc, unless it was just a + for small size or combined with below).
INT or AGL+INT/2 (whichever is better).

:popcorn:
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Dan
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Dan » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:01 pm

About slayers, I agree with Terron about it shouldnt be hard to hit someone who doesn't know you are there. Maybe they should have +1 agi when hidden, like the chanter fade buff.

On the other hand, regarding 1v1, a class that can round most of the meta shouldnt hit so often.

They can't just be spamming 600 dmg and hiding again.

So i think they damage should be adjusted in a way they kill most of the meta hitting x times, being x for sure bigger than 2, maybe 3 if they are very lucky.

Balance lies in if they can kill you in 2-3 rounds, they should die in 2 - 3 rounds as well.

I think it makes sense if their damage is higher against people with half hp or less, but should be reduced if people has higher than half hp. So they are finishers, they would have a role in group fights as well, if they time their attacks.

And they could hide again if they kill, but be tottally vulnerable if they don't, so you kinda force them to not spam that high damage attacks. That could be a problem in 1v1, so maybe give them medium armor back.

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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Terron » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:55 pm

i think the emphasis on the "int" stat is almost entirely lost ingame atm. i mean sure, u dont want to have 10 int so monsters and normal dpsers like cavalier/ninja find you endlessly. but what i mean by this is why have 20 int or 22 or even 24. 24 int lasts 1.2 seconds vs an arcane watcher, and less vs some ranger pets. brig event is hideless basically, im sure a slayer class event will be hideless to.
isnt really much difference past 14 int imo. once u can outhide the general dpser populace you have enough int. going past that doesnt help you stay hidden from any of the other stuff. so all in all put in 14-15 int, avoid low wisdom, and prepare to get blown up every 3 seconds by watchers that you cant resist over and over. the only use for high int is lasting longer in hide and kill event.


slayer class has honestly just became a zerker. its just a class that the group with the largest numbers at the time can use to assert dominance over the weaker groups.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Hanibal
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Hanibal » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:11 pm

Put them back the way they were, no timers.

The only dmg penalty they should get should be determined by the race you choose to play, gobs/drows have lower str but higher wis/int, saurian/h-orc have a higher str potential but lower int/wis, thats what we call balance.

Currently your looking at a chanter with almost 200 ac with stoneskin and a watcher that searches for them where as before they had lower ac and had to use one stamina to search for themselves, that was also balance.

I read in this thread where a slayer could easily round any class i/g, im yet to see this on my own h-orc slayer, what you guys feeding yours?

Every class had a weakness and really the only weakness a chanter/DM had were slayers, now thats gone along with solo pkrs on their slayers poking ppl in the back.
------------------------------------------------------------
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Dan
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Dan » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:21 pm

Hanibal ive seen slayers doing 600+ bs on my chars, its simple math.

How many of the class/race meta have 1200+ hp?

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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Terron » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:23 pm

they dont typically do that much now since buffs dont work the same. but they still do alot of damage and can be immune to death in alot of 1v1 situations.

was just too many "balance" implements at the same time. im sure there can be a happy medium just going to take a bit.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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NiteHawk
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:10 am

Yeah I get they need tweaking, we're looking at it anyways.

Terron wrote:id figure your opponent would be at 0 bonus from agi when ur attacking him from "hidden". i dont think it should be hard to hit someone who doesn't know you are there. but thats my opinion lol. never seen assassin as much of a class but as more of a profession and in that line of work combat skills sneaking poisons and in certain cases armor would be most beneficial. trust me an orc with a battleaxe makes a fine assassin...


This ain't the real life though. Having 0 AGI would pretty much mean insta hits. From a balance perspective that's would really mess things up with the current. It could be a easier chance to hit but I don't know if that's really the issue they're having at the moment.


----

Anyways, they're still top dogs in terms of damage but they're fairly squishy now. Right now slayers mostly hide to negate damage, which could be a bad/godo thing depending on who you're talking too. (I.E. It makes for a different style gameplay to actually use /hide however it also makes them immune to lower INT players as it's hard to search them out.) You could swap the timer to hide attack (DELAY) but that might be worse off for them in a gameplay perspective as they will have a window of 'attack' opportunity every time. Might be OK but then you'd probably nix the bonus spell damage and other things.


In regards to not having a timer, I mean, that sounds like the you want your cake and to eat it too. The real issue is that slayers have a 4.5x damage bonus DW'ing plus a hide mechanic. When comparing it to others, /hide + attack is two attacks, so the actual damage is 2.25x , because they are using daggers you can probably remove some of it and say that they get 1.75-2x damage more than others for doing literally nothing. Yeah, your zerker/etc can do high damage too, but it's no where as consistent as slayers. I honestly just wanted to nerf their damage multiplier but no one was having that before. Also, on top of the heavy damage they could just constantly move and hide again.

I'm not sure what the real route is here yet, there is a lot of opinions on this and what to do at the moment.

In terms of the INT, 20 int does matter for NPCs finding you like the watcher. It also does matter for players searching. It's a linear increase, it doesn't have 'a falloff'. So if that 15INT was good, then 20INT will be all that better. A HO/Saurian will struggle to fight against a sorc more then others because of the lack of INT though in any case.


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