Bard/Minstrel Balancing

[NiteHawk]

I don't think their damage is too bad now since every other class was lowered, but bards generally stayed the same. They are in the lower spectrum though, but not the lowest.

However, with /song power they can gain between 3-5 strength which gives them a nice damage boost, and is applicable to the whole party. I.E. it's about 147-197 damage regular with 20 strength, and 184-247 with the power song if you get 5 strength. Typical will probably be 4 strength. About on pair with a paladin. Damage is okay here.

Their shell grants them not only armor, but spell resistance. This was buffed up to about 20% resistance with 20 charisma at level 25. The actual armor amount is lower as they can wear medium armor, but puts them in line between medium and heavy users. Using /song AC boosts it further to high 80's or low 90's.

/song HP should give 20-30HP per tick. Need to test how this works in a large party but it might be too low. Maybe should be around 50 per tick at 25.

/song absorb is just more spell resistance. It's about 15% more resistance. So with shell and this, bards on themselves can naturally remove 35% damage negation on themselves (since shell is only cast on themselves), and that doesn't include any passive spell negation removal that wisdom grants too. Using this song probably gives them a nice chance against sorcs/etc.


I'm wondering about synergy songs though that are unlocked at higher levels. For example, one song giving power and AC. Another song giving all four, etc. These songs can use more per tick (3-4?)...

For example, /song superpower gives 3-5 strength (same as power) but then also gives 75% AC and Resist that /song ac and /song absorb give.

I just don't know what songs should synergy, or if it should even be this way. I don't want 20 different songs for bards.


There is an OAD instrument for sale now as well, it should ramp up your song powers as it is instrument+char based, not level+char.


Also, CURE has been boosted to the same as DRUIDS CURE. So that should actually be better now for them, heal wise.

Bards might make more sense once we have OADs though.

[Folder]

No one wants to test pvp with me right now, but 1 thing. Bards "cure" spell is way op right now. I made a minstrel with 12 int and cure is healing for ~160s and never fizzling. That's a solid bit more than my druid's cure and that is with 16 int.

I'm assuming int is what determines heal values...

[dunky]

I thought all bard spells were Charisma based.

[Folder]

Maybe, but then you can just tank int with no side effects.

[NiteHawk]

Maybe, but then you can just tank int with no side effects.

It is only charisma at the moment.

I mean, Maybe the general spells should be INT based. Cure is boosted like a druids is, but probably should be similar to a druids, where you don't need it, but if you want better healing then it could be a thing. That or I lower it a bit. But generally a bards int was 'charisma'. I wonder if it would hurt bards too much by doing that.

But I mean, you say it like Charisma is needed for sorcerers, or necromancers. They can tank charisma too.

[Folder]

Did you change the heal amount? Today my bard is healing for 130-140, it was 160s yesterday. This is more in line with a druid's cure but still pretty high I think. I'm pretty sure bards are going to be a good bit tanky which seems maybe not their intent?

My elf is 18, 22, 18, 12, 19, 22. With the AC song on I have 102 armor and 1016 hp. 83ac with just shell. Can heal for ~550 a round. If I play the str song instead I have 23 str, and still 83ac. Need more pvp testing but those are impressive stats.

Other classes can tank charisma, but it does permanently affect their hp/mp. Tanking int (on the bard, a class with spells) has no side effect other than weak /searching. Just something to consider, and again need more testing to see how they actually perform.

[Satsujin]

Is it possible to make bard spells split their modifier between INT and CHR? That way INT isn't so much of a dump stat for them.

[NiteHawk]

Is it possible to make bard spells split their modifier between INT and CHR? That way INT isn't so much of a dump stat for them.

Nah that's getting to complex.

I modified it though so each STAT point in int won't effect it as much.

Having 10 int gives you about 100 HP heals at level 25. (max)
Having 16 int gives you about 132 HP heals at level 25. (max)
Having 20 int gives you about 151 HP heals at level 25. (max)

Variance is still about 20%. (0.9 to 1.1 modifier)

I am also going to lower the AC a bit, by about 2 or 3 points with shell. 102 is a bit high. All should be adjusted if you relogin.

I still need ideas for the song bit I posted.

[Folder]

That sounds better, thanks.

It's really hard to say about the songs. I need to pvp people to see how they actually perform. I'm just theorizing how good they will be atm.

[NiteHawk]

Yeah we'll see. I lowered AC by -3 too. So should be 99 with your elf now.