Rangers

[Folder]

Damn it ffs I just wrote a huge thing about rangers and fixes they, imo, need. Idle timed out from forums and whole thing got erased. Grrr. Bullet pointing this now!

-Too many items
Make pet revive a skill. Make pet mend a skill. Get rid of arrows (make damage variance come from the bow, not some bow+arrow combo). Maybe some people like the idea of arrows, but in practice it's just an annoyance.

-Bow vs sword/shield
Not much point to S/S, you gain 14ac + deflect chance but the damage output is pretty horrible compared to using a bow. Make them use bows only, balance around that and keep it simple.

-Pet name filters
Or just bans for people with stupidly offensive pet names.

-Taming is a bitch
Is it CHR based? I made a stalker with 18 CHR and it's pretty horrible trying to tame something that's way lower lvl (a badger in Kakegi took me a good 10 tries).

-What is skill fumbling (as in pet calling) based on
INT? Sucks to fumble a pet call, not really sure what the point of that is lol.

-A stable would be really really really good
Pretty sure this has been asked for before, but yeah this would be very nice.

-Pet mend spell
Heal amount is rather worthless @ around 35 hp. Am I supposed to find higher INT pets to make this worthwhile? I haven't found any caster types I could tame yet.

-Low AC
53AC with a bow equipped. Rangers are gonna get wrecked. Maybe pets can do some sort of guard for their owner, or occasionally cast a shield on them to absorb some damage. A simple AC boost may be an option as well but that's less interesting.


I think that's it for now. Liking this class a lot but it needs some quality of life fixes.

[dunky]

If pet is in use, add 20 Armor or something. Yeah you could increase the enemy's pet targeting chances, but that doesn't do jack shit for pvp.

[daedroth]

If rangers are too weak...
Give a sort of protect option for pets, but make it a very low chance of getting in the way of a blow (based on its dodge)?
Or just a random chance of them getting in the way of an attack.

[NiteHawk]

-Too many items
Make pet revive a skill. Make pet mend a skill. Get rid of arrows (make damage variance come from the bow, not some bow+arrow combo). Maybe some people like the idea of arrows, but in practice it's just an annoyance.

Not getting rid of arrows. I think arrows are unique. You don't need to use them if you don't want too. They have 400-500 stacks don't they? It can go even higher if we need (up to 999). Arrows are interesting and in the future I wanted to make more unique arrows, poison arrows, divinity arrows, things like that, that can help out more. Typically if you have about 800 arrows you're set for quite awhile, (one equipped, one in inventory). Though this can be changed to 999 stacks and then just have them equipped.

Pet revive/mending a skill I'm just wondering how it will be without being overpowered. Your pet will never die if you can just do it that way. It could instead be 'one' item that does all, either by using or by using a skill. (i.e. pend mend kit that will heal and revive). But I think it'll be a bit too weird if they can heal their pets just by a skill and no item. But again, it could be one item, and you use it and it does all. I could do that instead. (or skill if you think that's better)

[b]-Bow vs sword/shield
Not much point to S/S, you gain 14ac + deflect chance but the damage output is pretty horrible compared to using a bow. Make them use bows only, balance around that and keep it simple.[/b]

I think it's fine if they use swords, I don't see a reason for removing this if people for some reason want more AC.

-Pet name filters
Or just bans for people with stupidly offensive pet names.

Yeah this one was already brought up. I intend on making a filter for names.

-Taming is a bitch
Is it CHR based? I made a stalker with 18 CHR and it's pretty horrible trying to tame something that's way lower lvl (a badger in Kakegi took me a good 10 tries).

That is the point. The pet is with you forever. It's something like 8% at lower mobs level, and 4% with the higher mobs, and then variance in between. Charisma boosts this by double if you have 20 charisma, so 16%-8%. It's mean to be harder, it's not that you only have it for that duration. You can also buy pets from others if you can't be bothered to do so. I disagree with you being able to tame everything super easily. It ruins the idea to me and I'd rather rangers not have permanent pets and rather having ones you just charm on the go like ROK had. Once things are rolling you will probably be able to buy ranger pet crystals in the auction hall I intend on creating, since they are actually givable. Making a little market for them anyways.

-What is skill fumbling (as in pet calling) based on
INT? Sucks to fumble a pet call, not really sure what the point of that is lol.

Oh, I didn't realize you could fumble calling out a pet. It's based on charisma for them, but was never meant to be on the /pet calling. Fumbling happens on all skill based, its the same generally as fizzling out a spell. I'll have to fix this for rangers though. Typically fumbling is based on what that skill uses.

-A stable would be really really really good
Pretty sure this has been asked for before, but yeah this would be very nice.

Eventually. Yeah.

-Pet mend spell
Heal amount is rather worthless @ around 35 hp. Am I supposed to find higher INT pets to make this worthwhile? I haven't found any caster types I could tame yet.

The issue is not really that the spell is useless, it's just that there is no monsters that are tamable have high int yet. These spells were just tests though to see if it worked or not, I don't even know if I'll keep it unless build add INT based pets here and there.

-Low AC
53AC with a bow equipped. Rangers are gonna get wrecked. Maybe pets can do some sort of guard for their owner, or occasionally cast a shield on them to absorb some damage. A simple AC boost may be an option as well but that's less interesting.

Yeah that's true, most classes are meant to have around 65+ AC. I wouldn't say 'they get wrecked' though beause of how AC works now, but it does need to be addressed. It could be that they protect once and awhile that reduces damage a bit. I'd like more says on this. I was even thinking they could /protect but I think that can be abused due to the healing/reviving items (I think it can be killed but they will simply revive the pet each time. Specially if we are condensing the items to one item that does all.)

I'd say if they want to use a shield and then having some sort of pet AC boost, and they want 90ish armor, then that's their call.



Ranger pets attack what you are attacking as well if the player is visible (otherwise he will attack a random, but will always CHECK first before attacking), so they will ignore taunts and things like that and be loyal to their owner. It's a little thing that was added recently. Rangers do lower damage, but it is generally because if you add up the ranger pet damage, they do a considerable amount of damage. Their AGI with a pet item should be around the same hit chance you have, and since they attack what you attack. You can say it's only 200 damage or whatnot, but then the pet can do an additional 80-120 damage more. I think stating their damage is low is incorrect. It's just another way of actually playing the game. Of course they might need balancing, but the damage is generally OK.

A simple way could be as dunky said, AC while the pet being out. Make it based on something so there is a small variance like the the pets agility or something.

[Folder]

NiteHawk wrote:
Not getting rid of arrows. I think arrows are unique. You don't need to use them if you don't want too. They have 400-500 stacks don't they? It can go even higher if we need (up to 999). Arrows are interesting and in the future I wanted to make more unique arrows, poison arrows, divinity arrows, things like that, that can help out more. Typically if you have about 800 arrows you're set for quite awhile, (one equipped, one in inventory). Though this can be changed to 999 stacks and then just have them equipped.

Pet revive/mending a skill I'm just wondering how it will be without being overpowered. Your pet will never die if you can just do it that way. It could instead be 'one' item that does all, either by using or by using a skill. (i.e. pend mend kit that will heal and revive). But I think it'll be a bit too weird if they can heal their pets just by a skill and no item. But again, it could be one item, and you use it and it does all. I could do that instead. (or skill if you think that's better)

Arrows increase your damage, right (+1 min/max it seems like)? You do have to use them if that's the case. I get what you're saying about uniqueness but I think the same could be accomplished without having to always have a consumable in your inventory. If you're set on that then you're set on that, but that's my feedback.

In PvE your pet never dies right now, you can toss a pellet at it every whatever seconds for a huge heal. I don't much imagine a ranger pet will be a prime target in PvP. So that is to say I'm not sure how it would be any more powerful, in practice, than using items for this stuff. You could even argue that having the ranger use an action to heal/revive is worse than being able to /use an item.

[b]-Bow vs sword/shield
Not much point to S/S, you gain 14ac + deflect chance but the damage output is pretty horrible compared to using a bow. Make them use bows only, balance around that and keep it simple.

I think it's fine if they use swords, I don't see a reason for removing this if people for some reason want more AC.

It seems to be 30% more damage to use a bow than a sword. Would you ever sacrifice 30% damage for a shield? I sure wouldn't. I mean sure leave it in I guess, but those rangers are gonna just be hurting themselves if they switch to a shield.

-Taming is a bitch
Is it CHR based? I made a stalker with 18 CHR and it's pretty horrible trying to tame something that's way lower lvl (a badger in Kakegi took me a good 10 tries).

That is the point. The pet is with you forever. It's something like 8% at lower mobs level, and 4% with the higher mobs, and then variance in between. Charisma boosts this by double if you have 20 charisma, so 16%-8%. It's mean to be harder, it's not that you only have it for that duration. You can also buy pets from others if you can't be bothered to do so. I disagree with you being able to tame everything super easily. It ruins the idea to me and I'd rather rangers not have permanent pets and rather having ones you just charm on the go like ROK had. Once things are rolling you will probably be able to buy ranger pet crystals in the auction hall I intend on creating, since they are actually givable. Making a little market for them anyways.

Ok, if they are tradeable I can see this being acceptable. I do think a stable or some system will be required eventually, because a pet isn't with you forever now. If I want a different pet the one I had has to be released, and whatever upgrades I did to it are gone (unless I'm missing something here).

-Pet mend spell
Heal amount is rather worthless @ around 35 hp. Am I supposed to find higher INT pets to make this worthwhile? I haven't found any caster types I could tame yet.

The issue is not really that the spell is useless, it's just that there is no monsters that are tamable have high int yet. These spells were just tests though to see if it worked or not, I don't even know if I'll keep it unless build add INT based pets here and there.

Ok, I figured it might be like that. Well it does work! Let's get some INT tamables out there .

-Low AC
53AC with a bow equipped. Rangers are gonna get wrecked. Maybe pets can do some sort of guard for their owner, or occasionally cast a shield on them to absorb some damage. A simple AC boost may be an option as well but that's less interesting.

Yeah that's true, most classes are meant to have around 65+ AC. I wouldn't say 'they get wrecked' though beause of how AC works now, but it does need to be addressed. It could be that they protect once and awhile that reduces damage a bit. I'd like more says on this. I was even thinking they could /protect but I think that can be abused due to the healing/reviving items (I think it can be killed but they will simply revive the pet each time. Specially if we are condensing the items to one item that does all.)

I'd say if they want to use a shield and then having some sort of pet AC boost, and they want 90ish armor, then that's their call.

/protect would be way too much if it were always on. Pet AC boost seams reasonable and simple.

I don't think I said rangers do low damage. I think their damage is just fine, but I'd like to do more pvp testing. Most people are just sitting in the tavern right now though, slackers.

[NiteHawk]

Arrows increase your damage, right (+1 min/max it seems like)? You do have to use them if that's the case. I get what you're saying about uniqueness but I think the same could be accomplished without having to always have a consumable in your inventory. If you're set on that then you're set on that, but that's my feedback.

Yeah, sorry, it's sticking. Different arrows give different amounts though too. I do like it. We can increase the ammo cap though so you only need one stack if that's the case though. I intend on giving useful and interesting arrows though in the future.

In PvE your pet never dies right now, you can toss a pellet at it every whatever seconds for a huge heal. I don't much imagine a ranger pet will be a prime target in PvP. So that is to say I'm not sure how it would be any more powerful, in practice, than using items for this stuff. You could even
argue that having the ranger use an action to heal/revive is worse than being able to /use an item.

True, I'd honestly like to know what people feel about this, I'll make a poll on it.

It seems to be 30% more damage to use a bow than a sword. Would you ever sacrifice 30% damage for a shield? I sure wouldn't. I mean sure leave it in I guess, but those rangers are gonna just be hurting themselves if they switch to a shield.

Yeah I understand that, but I don't see a reason to remove it Is it actually 30% though? If that is the case I might adjust it so that it's not so bad and actually useful. Like 10-15% instead.

Ok, if they are tradeable I can see this being acceptable. I do think a stable or some system will be required eventually, because a pet isn't with you forever now. If I want a different pet the one I had has to be released, and whatever upgrades I did to it are gone (unless I'm missing something here).

No that's correct. Eventually there will be though, I don't think it will happen before I do end game stuff though but it is planned. But yeah the crystals aren't soulbound to you when people capture them so you can trade or sell them.

Ok, I figured it might be like that. Well it does work! Let's get some INT tamables out there .

Agreed 8)

-Low AC
/protect would be way too much if it were always on. Pet AC boost seams reasonable and simple.

I don't think I said rangers do low damage. I think their damage is just fine, but I'd like to do more pvp testing. Most people are just sitting in the tavern right now though, slackers.

Nono, I was just pointing it out in here since I know people might say it in a reply about the damage.

The AC thing sounds like an OK idea, I think I will just check to see how I can do this with minimal effort then.

[NiteHawk]

For bows I'm modifying it so it's about 10-15% more damage when using it (with generic arrows). It's still better even without but the impact won't be insane.

This means using a sword overall will have a higher 'normal' damage. Actual damage will be the same or so.

[Folder]

I just did some dummy testing and yeah it was about 30% lower damage with sword/shield, which is pretty dang high. 15% would be a reasonable tradeoff, similar to dual wielding classes.

Make arrows stack to infinity...and beyond!

edit: yeah ok 15% is great.

[NiteHawk]

I just did some dummy testing and yeah it was about 30% lower damage with sword/shield, which is pretty dang high. 15% would be a reasonable tradeoff, similar to dual wielding classes.

Make arrows stack to infinity...and beyond!

edit: yeah ok 15% is great.

Rather then 10%min and 10% max, its going to be 15%min and 5% max. Makes a higher average but you won't hit randomly hard like some other classes which was what the bow was meant to be still, so should work. Other classes are 10% yeah.

With this change they will lose a little minimum in favor for a little maximum. Average is still the same and it's still a higher minimum then a sword, so overall higher average. Should be good testings once done.

[NiteHawk]

Arrows have less of an impact, but still give some damage. 999 stack for now unless people disagree.

Sword/Shield are now a viable option.

Bow gives 15%min/5% max vs sword now, (similar to 10%/10% DW'ing gives)

Ranger general damage was boosted so that swords work better, and then I lowered BOWs to around the same damage they are at now to get that 15/5 boost.

All items updated in game. Will look into other things now too (ranger pet AC)