Thieves and Stealing

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NiteHawk
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Thieves and Stealing

Postby NiteHawk » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:20 pm

I heard about stealing in arenas, I think it should not be allowed mainly because they cannot be killed there. I fixed this now.

However outside of arenas is free game.I lowered stat restrictions and people choose to only have 10 int, that is their fault. If you want to catch a thief, you need INT. It is INT VS AGI in this case. They are going to win if you are a 'dumb character' just because I removed the restrictions. It is your doing that is, if you want it or not. Maybe other stats are more important to you when it comes to 'extra stats' etc.

There are other areas to level or mobs to kill that have drops rather then gold. Some areas are great for thieves, others are terrible. Just like undead areas vs cleric/pally. I think thieves are meant to be played as they are. Bank your gold often, don't run your gold too far up. etc. We are working on making sure gold is more available but for now it is what it is.

However, I am curious. What do people think is a good amount of GOLD to steal vs NPCS and vs PLAYERS per attack? I never really had a set guide though. Right now I believe it is around 500 gold at level 25.

Thanks.

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Satsujin
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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby Satsujin » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:46 pm

Oh boy, my favorite topic, thieves and how everyone thinks they suck! /s

Okay, as someone who mained a thief on ROK for many years and intends to main one on Ember, there are many more solutions to this than people seem to think there are. Some of them don't even require making friends.

The first and simplest solution is to make friends with someone who's playing a thief. Let them get the experience for stealing gold, you both get the kill experience, you split the gold. Everybody wins. For those of you who can't or don't want to make friends, you can also do this by yourself, just requires logging alts back and forth a lot. That way, you're the one who wins, because you get both all the gold and the experience.

The second solution is to level places that aren't friendly towards thieves, better known as places where you're going to get primarily vendor trash instead of gold. You'll have to go back to town more often, but from there you can bank your gold, and you're going to be safer from thieves in the long run, because you won't be carrying any easily stealable gold around while leveling.

The third solution, which I will preface by saying this option is my opinion as a player instead of me speaking as a member of staff, is to suck it up, PK the thief if you see them, and stop whining about a game mechanic.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die...
Mahariel | 25 Brigand
Starlyte | 20 Cleric
Starstryke | 25 Stalker

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Lateralus
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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby Lateralus » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:14 pm

very much part of the game set a macro for the thief and be ready! or make a thief and steal from them this is the way to go. Great to see pvp starting up love it!

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NiteHawk
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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby NiteHawk » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:01 pm

People are making non-int characters now that its not required thinking they never need it.

It HELPS with stuff like this greatly. I am still working on the formula but even now higher INT will make them fail alot more often. But having 10 int characters means you will pretty much always get thieves stealing on you successfully. I know not all classes can have tons of int, but even 'some' will help.

Obviously level does effect it too. If they are too high level then obviously it's easier for them, but I doubt they will thieve non high level areas as it's not really profitable. Right now everyones around the same level I assume.

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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby NiteHawk » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:16 pm

I missed something that made all defending characters to stealing level 8 on the rolls. It probably made thieves alot easier to steal on ALOT of things, and also on players. My bad guys, sorry.

It should be fixed now.

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Folder
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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby Folder » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:18 pm

Stealing is pretty fking hard now o.o. With 23 agi lvl18 it seems way harder to steal than it was. Only talking about pve here.

I was using goblin outpost for decent stealing but now it's mad hard to stay alive because of all the failed steals. Poo.
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Satsujin
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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby Satsujin » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:25 pm

Yeah, it definitely got much harder. On the one hand, hopefully people will stop their bitching now, but on the other, now I can't run around and out thief the thief from before, so booooooooooooo.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die...
Mahariel | 25 Brigand
Starlyte | 20 Cleric
Starstryke | 25 Stalker

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NiteHawk
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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:43 am

Satsujin wrote:Yeah, it definitely got much harder. On the one hand, hopefully people will stop their bitching now, but on the other, now I can't run around and out thief the thief from before, so booooooooooooo.


Well, before was a broken mechanic as the thief could always steal 100% due to the broken formula. You can't steal from higher level monsters if they are well over you. So you can't just make a level 15 character and go steal from level 23 npcs. It's not like ROK where you could just loot from everything and run out with a weak character though.

As I said, someone 20 agi vs 20 int is about 60% steal rate. 20 agi to 16 int is 70, 20 agi to 12 int is about 80, and 20 agi to 10 int is about 83-84%. This is IF level is the same. I don't think the rates are horrible, and it forces you to pick and choose, rather then just going gunho on everyone. Smarter people are going to catch you.

I can see about raising the rate a little, but I don't think it's terrible.

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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:10 am

I made it a little bit easier but also made level less impacting. It still impacts but it might help out.

local attackRoll = Random.Number(0, (attackerLvl/2) * attackerAgi * 0.2)
local defenderRoll = Random.Number(0, (defenderLvl/2) * defenderInt * 0.14)

lets say I have 22 agi thief and they have a 16 int paladin, both level 20

Steal Roll = 0 to 10 * 22 * 0.2 = 44
Defender Roll = 0 to 10 * 16 * 0.13 = 20.8

The chance (done 5000 rolls) is 77.7% chance to steal. (Used to be 70%)

----

Same thing, 10 int roll now.

Steal Roll = 44
Defender Roll = 13

Chance: 85.5%

----

22 AGI vs 16 INT, but the thief is 5 levels higher. (25 vs 20)

Steal Roll = 0 to 12.5 * 22 * 0.2 = 55
Defender Roll = 0 to 10 * 16 * 0.13 = 20.8

Change: 82.5%


----

22 AGI vs 16 INT, but the thief is 5 levels higher. (25 vs 20)

Steal Roll = 0 to 12.5 * 22 * 0.2 = 55
Defender Roll = 0 to 10 * 20 * 0.13 = 26

Change: 76.7%




Changes are now in effect now. Give it a whirl now and see. This means that:

A. Thieves should still a good deal on lower intelligence characters, but you might want to avoid gnomes and such (just like PVP, pick your targets).
B. Level is less important by half. So that a level 20 vs level 25 won't be 100% now as long as they have high int. It makes agi vs int more important though.


What do people think of these rolls? Too much? To little? I think it's fair overall, may need some small tweaking.

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Satsujin
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Re: Thieves and Stealing

Postby Satsujin » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:48 am

Haven't tested PVP, but going through PVE there's a definite difference between before the fixes and after them. I'm failing much more often against creatures higher level than I am. Which is frustrating, but not so much that I'm gonna give up on my thief, so I would say it's effective. Will get back to you on PVP results when I get bored and start robbing people instead of things.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die...
Mahariel | 25 Brigand
Starlyte | 20 Cleric
Starstryke | 25 Stalker


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