Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

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Tucker
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Tucker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:37 am

Miach wrote:Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I like it just how it is with hiding and stabbing.


Hiding and stabbing is fine its more the force movement that people dislike that could be changed. I was just making a suggestion tas an example of how it could be balanced there's multiple fairly simple ways to remove moving out/in a room without screwing up balance on Slayers. Builders have been putting in work around rooms like in Dreadlands and Raider Leader room that clearly show the forced movement mechanic sucks and is being built around instead of just fixing the core problem.

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Eld
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Eld » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:34 am

Before i was strongly in favour of this being changed so you didn't have to move off the square to stab.
My favoured way of balancing it was so there was a delay after each /hide and each /backstab, i went into a buncha detail on this on the previous thread linked above.


However...

After playing a slayer more i do kinda like that slayers are different from other classes, and i think this is something we need to make sure every class has, so there's a bit more variety to attacking rather than the same command each time.

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Tucker
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Tucker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:53 pm

Eld wrote:Before i was strongly in favour of this being changed so you didn't have to move off the square to stab.
My favoured way of balancing it was so there was a delay after each /hide and each /backstab, i went into a buncha detail on this on the previous thread linked above.


However...

After playing a slayer more i do kinda like that slayers are different from other classes, and i think this is something we need to make sure every class has, so there's a bit more variety to attacking rather than the same command each time.


I mean I feel like thats going in the wrong direction with it but so long as every classes is equally annoying it'll be fine. For Monks to RH they have to open command prompt and telnet to the server IP. Maybe for Enchanters to cast stoneskin they could copy paste a java popup from one text field to another :D :D Clerics could unequip and requip their weapon before each rd perhap!

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Lateralus
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Lateralus » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:42 pm

Miach wrote:Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I like it just how it is with hiding and stabbing.


Yea me too. I think most areas have added up down rooms if not bosses should have them. It takes a bit of skill to play an Assassin which I like.

Maybe for the people who don't want to hide and backstab they could have another 2 action attack called stike that did 2.5-3 damage.

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Tucker
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Tucker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:43 pm

Lateralus wrote:
Miach wrote:Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I like it just how it is with hiding and stabbing.


Yea me too. I think most areas have added up down rooms if not bosses should have them. It takes a bit of skill to play an Assassin which I like.

Maybe for the people who don't want to hide and backstab they could have another 2 action attack called stike that did 2.5-3 damage.



I don't think moving right left is too high skill for people :P Slayers aren't an especially high skill class - higher than Monk, Knight, Barb or pure melee fighters, but I'd say just about any casting class (save druid maybe) is much higher skill.

I wanna repeat that the focus of my suggestion isn't to remove /hide but to remove the forced movement restriction. Changing /hide was a balance suggestion for after you remove the forced movement restriction, but there are other ways to balance it without removing /hide at all.

The issue that needs fixed is that there is zero reason for the move restriction to exist. It doesnt make lore sense and isn't necessary for balance reasons. It slows down and is annoying with leveling and PVE and either forces builders to redesign rooms or makes the class shit for OAD'ing

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Folder
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Folder » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:56 pm

PREACH IT TUCK.

I said all this before, as have others. We are "used" to the back and forth shit but it still feels dumb. Ruins the class on a number of squares, feels clunky, and is basically only there because of nostalgia. We can do better imo.
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby daedroth » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:29 am

Lateralus wrote:Yea me too. I think most areas have added up down rooms if not bosses should have them. It takes a bit of skill to play an Assassin which I like.

Maybe for the people who don't want to hide and backstab they could have another 2 action attack called stike that did 2.5-3 damage.


But there shouldn't need to be those kind of up down rooms... it is just silly that it needs to be added, and implemented, so that one class can use its main attack otherwise that class cant be used well in that area.
Either the mechanic of backstab should change, and/or as you, me and many others have stated, there should be an alternative to backstabbing that keeps assassins competitive in the times where they cant move (or in certain cases are lagged - yeh it still happens depending on your isp/computer etc).
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Miach
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Miach » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:46 pm

I'm going to add something very serious here and it plays into everything.

When a Slayer is forced to move in and out, it gives a chance for others to detect him through looking around and forces him to use autosneak to remain undetected when moving, which can burn up and cause an exhaust round.

The movement mechanic is needed for backstabbing, it does so much more than just re-hide when you REALLY think about it.

So no, I am not in favor of changing Slayers. They need to be a little harder to play, and, to be quite honest, I still find them easy.

The up/down rooms are not so bad, and not hard to implement.

You're narrow focusing on the backstab mechanic and not thinking about the whole picture and how that movement affects a variety of interactions regarding the Slayer.

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Tucker
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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Tucker » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:22 pm

Miach wrote:You're narrow focusing on the backstab mechanic and not thinking about the whole picture and how that movement affects a variety of interactions regarding the Slayer.


I'm literally only focusing on the movement. The movement is the thing people want to see changed. As I've mentioned any other mentioned potential changes are thrown out as balancing options after removing the restriction.

When a Slayer is forced to move in and out, it gives a chance for others to detect him through looking around and forces him to use autosneak to remain undetected when moving, which can burn up and cause an exhaust round.


What? I actually am not sure what you're trying to describe here. The only incentive a Slayer has to autosneak is for the first backstab right? After that he is visible from his attack and by looking at the room or the list of units in the room to the right. Why would he then leave autosneak on when leaving and reentering the square for his second backstab of the round?

I suppose if you're fighting with hit and run style tactics you'd want to leave it on i.e. a mosh or fighting outnumbered. Sure the forced movement removal would make Slayer's exh less often in this situation but wouldn't Slayer's just turn it off before out/in movement anyway? It's easy to macro and costs no stamina to toggle.

The movement mechanic is needed for backstabbing, it does so much more than just re-hide when you REALLY think about it.


The movement mechanic is not needed for backstabbing. Why would it be? You're right when I REALLY think about it drags mobs around the map making playing the hero annoying as shit compared to literally any other class. It also makes them useless in any locked room without a fake ladder, when I REALLY think about it.

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Re: Quality of Life Changes to /hide and Backstab Mechanics

Postby Folder » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:30 pm

You said hero :lol:
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