Instead of 25+

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Hanibal
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Instead of 25+

Postby Hanibal » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:45 am

Im just full of ideas lately and have played many many games with different systems to keep people active and not know what to do after max level.

One game in particular had a rebirth system after max level and it gave you options for different class combos, now they only had 4 primary classes but i don't see why it wouldn't work with this game even though it has many more.

I'll explain how it worked.

So you hit max level, tried a few different classes now what?

Rebirth, resets your character back to level one with a new ability depending on the path you choose to take, natural rebirth for example priest > priest might give you a new spell or a chance to reflect damage.

All your gear you choose to leave equiped has a chance to get a bonus, of course you have to unequip or it autos unequip cus its lvl 25 but this could add a new market for differing gear or make those greens actually worth something.

What if you decide to go priest > ninja, here's where new skills could be added and a wider range class types, your new ninja with rebirth could now have a minor heal spell or a cool new hp steal effect, again because of the wide range of classes this game has the combos are endless, well almost.

The game i mentioned above has had a very strong player base and has lasted for years with many games like it and this is not something ive ever seen in a MuD type game, im sure people have tried it or maybe not and this one could be the first.
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Krange - Ninja
Hanibal - Slayer
Hannibal - Zerker
Krang - Ninja
Zann - Guard
WarLock - Deathmage
Dexk - Cav

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby JadeFalcon » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:08 pm

i like your idea
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Hanibal
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Hanibal » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:33 am

Possible rebirth skill break down:

Pure rebirths would get a specific skill and combo rebirths would get one possibly two skills from the class they were previously and maybe a hp boost when lvling up the 2nd time so if they were getting 40 hps avg per lvl maybe 43-45 the 2nd time around , it could look something like this.

Priest > Priest - at 2nd lvl 25 heal spell that heals to whole party

Paly > Paly - at 2nd lvl 25 reflect, kind of like bash but could deal upto 100% dmg

Elder > Elder - at 2nd lvl 25 haste would add one additional stam, so 5 attacks instead of 4

Zerker > Zerker - at 2nd lvl 25 rage, 200% (can be adjusted) attack dmg for one round plus .5 agi one round

slayer > slayer - no exh with auto sneak, hide and stab timers non existent

Mini > Mini - new song maybe agi song or something

Now a few examples of a mixed rebirth

Priest > Pally - stronger heal spell maybe like aid, so basically a battle priest to balance maybe it takes more mana then it did for the priest to use

Cav > Slayer - able to wear heavier armor, so can upgrade from cloth to medium or maybe the slayer gets to bash the cav previously had?

Priest > ninja - minor heal spell, basically any priest > whatever class gets a minor heal spell

pally > mini - mini could learn /protect maybe?, paly > whatever class would learn protect that actually drops after X amount of stam so they have to redo it?

Slayer > Cav - at 25 could learn death strike, kinda like a backstab maybe not as strong, slayer > whatever class would learn this skill, imagine a slayer > priest with a kick ass attack it could use when not healing everyone, of course AD plays a big part in the dmg so you wouldnt see a priest death strike for 400+.

All non pure would probably need a stat allocate and this could be given for free after rebirth.

If your armor class doesnt fit into what your reborning into so be it either goign from cloth to heavy or vice versa the system would give you a coin so you can change that gear much like when slayers armor was changed but with a possibilty of getting a hum or some cool stat bonus?

Anyway just a few ideas and i figured it would be easier to code some new cool skills then add new lvls, gear and areas for lvl 25+ to lvl in.
------------------------------------------------------------
Krange - Ninja
Hanibal - Slayer
Hannibal - Zerker
Krang - Ninja
Zann - Guard
WarLock - Deathmage
Dexk - Cav

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NiteHawk
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:01 am

That's pretty much what we intended on doing. Just adding more levels will create a bigger problem with PK and other things. I've also talked about making two 'class branches' (aka skills) for each class to branch too. I.E. a Sorc could maybe focus on buffs or damage branch. A priest might focus on single target vs group heals. I don't think I want dual classing though, I think it's going to be way to hard to balance 100+ different 'class combos' to be fair.

But yeah it's generally how I would want it in general. :> So you're not far off anyways.

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Hanibal
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Hanibal » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 am

NiteHawk wrote:That's pretty much what we intended on doing. Just adding more levels will create a bigger problem with PK and other things. I've also talked about making two 'class branches' (aka skills) for each class to branch too. I.E. a Sorc could maybe focus on buffs or damage branch. A priest might focus on single target vs group heals. I don't think I want dual classing though, I think it's going to be way to hard to balance 100+ different 'class combos' to be fair.

But yeah it's generally how I would want it in general. :> So you're not far off anyways.


Wouldnt be a duel class really, just a rebirth to a new class keeping one of the previous classes skills, true balance is done by the player base not so much by the builders, all classes should have a bane thats where having the right party composition helps you win battles.

My idea is basically a branch of skills as you mentioned just relvling back to 25 to get them, I so wanted to relvl my useless horc slayer into a cav with a /death strike skill lol

I like what you guys are doing, keep up the great work. Feel like this game is going in the right direction it just needs those few tweeks.
------------------------------------------------------------
Krange - Ninja
Hanibal - Slayer
Hannibal - Zerker
Krang - Ninja
Zann - Guard
WarLock - Deathmage
Dexk - Cav

Terron
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Terron » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:39 pm

"true balance is done by the player base not so much by the builders"

lol very true, atleast it should be. problem is it has been easier to whine for nerfs instead of leveling the bane.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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daedroth
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby daedroth » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:13 am

Brainstorming!:
I think with Perks or Rebirth, with either one you should have choices to make and you should not be able to eventually get all the choices.

If rebirth you can only go through each class once (or a maximum of X amount of classes), choosing an option from three choices?
Could even be a pre-existing class skill/spell/weapon/armour choice (One that you have at 8th). Balancing in some cases could be icky, but just leave out unbalanced choices?

If perks, you go from 1 - 25th again with a choice of perk every X amount of levels (maybe make it 1, 8, 15, 20, 25). Choice from three at each point (choice based on class base: Rogue, Fighter, Mage, Healer or actual class, or combinations, maybe even racial)?
You can only do this once.


Ideas:
DDO Rebirth System: https://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats (I think this is where this idea came from, could be wrong though).

Fallout Tactics Perks: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Tactics_perks (I chose this one because there are way more than Fallout 1/2).

Only adding the below coz, meh.

Fallout 3: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_perks

Fallout 4: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_4_perks

Etc etc.

Fallout Tactics: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Tactics_traits (Traits to be chosen on character creation or rebirth, if wanted).
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Terron
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Terron » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:02 am

well, if we just do rebirth, it becomes stagnant again in a month. yay u got a mage. that relevels and is a...yep mage. itll be like conquer where u get like 4 rebirths now? lol they just keep adding more for players to "grow"

level 25 should be fine.
perks are fine just pick em every level, really just adds flavor.
fallout trait types on creation would be cool. huge bonuses with huge drawbacks.

the reason i say endless "leveling" is because you can create a system of progression that doesnt end and doesnt really matter just slightly helps in a non damage/hit rate way.

obviously we dont want level 400s with 9000% hit rate on level 25s. the leveling should stop at 25 period. then 25ers can have a separate "grind level" that promotes them bonus every 100-250 or so million exp. itll rack up by using the characters via oad/farming/holiday events etc. but again the bonuses should be small. a few hps, a couple mana, 0.1 to a skill roll. you could even cap the amount a character can select the same "perk". but in all, its just better.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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NiteHawk
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:42 pm

Terron wrote:well, if we just do rebirth, it becomes stagnant again in a month. yay u got a mage. that relevels and is a...yep mage. itll be like conquer where u get like 4 rebirths now? lol they just keep adding more for players to "grow"

level 25 should be fine.
perks are fine just pick em every level, really just adds flavor.
fallout trait types on creation would be cool. huge bonuses with huge drawbacks.

the reason i say endless "leveling" is because you can create a system of progression that doesnt end and doesnt really matter just slightly helps in a non damage/hit rate way.

obviously we dont want level 400s with 9000% hit rate on level 25s. the leveling should stop at 25 period. then 25ers can have a separate "grind level" that promotes them bonus every 100-250 or so million exp. itll rack up by using the characters via oad/farming/holiday events etc. but again the bonuses should be small. a few hps, a couple mana, 0.1 to a skill roll. you could even cap the amount a character can select the same "perk". but in all, its just better.


Well I am not a fan of endless leveling too. I assume we'd just do some sort of level 25-50 that works like a 'rebirth', something like that.
Perks are another perhaps too instead of rebirth type leveling. I would have a cap after a certain amount though for sure.

Terron
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Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Terron » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:23 pm

yah i dont want levels in a sense, as in anything that gives combat benefits or affects the current pvp system. i dont think a level 25 bonus level 2 should increase in hit rate or damage or anything over a level 25 bonus level 0.

i also dont think you should be able to grind a level 25 in 3 days then rebirth it in 3 days because it ends up as nothing, might aswell just double the exp requirements and give them a pick a path ability half way through. its the same. i think this is the easy button.
however, its not a bad start to progression post 25. it will just be short lived really. and still doesnt fix the problem of benefitting using characters for a long time. you just level twice instead of once. (hope tonya is ready)

a perk system would be epic for character development. preferably one with like 3 points every level to diversify your characters and make them different.

all of these will be fun, i just think a single rebirth is more like a temporary fix. but im not against it in any way. a longer/better progression system can always be added later on.

Edit: i posted something similar awhile back about a class restructure thing at level 25. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2086
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants


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