PVP and newbies - What to do?

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NiteHawk
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PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:08 pm

Okay so. This is another touchy subject. It is to do with PVP. Obviously ROK it was pretty much unlimited, it worked probably because there was a high player base and alts. We need to seriously look at this.

There have been a lot of new players, but recently in the last week about a handful or more quit the game because of heavy pking. We need solutions to this I think. In a serious just recently a level 10 was getting slaughtered recently by a slayer over and over. He didn't understand the game, he ended up quitting. I think it's a shame we are losing players over it, but also I don't want to change the core of the game to the point where it is fluffy kitten mode.

There were some ideas brought up but it's hard to think what it the best. This is just to get the ball rolling.

1. PVE areas. Far lower EXP, (25-30%) for the same level monsters. Anything past level 20 however would never have a PVE area. (So 20-25 is always in PVP areas).

2. /nopk flag. Something that you set that could never be changed. The character would always be NO PK. You can not interact with players and you cannot toggle back. Would not be able to join PVP events. Issue would be running into one of these dudes and realizing you can't kill them at all, but I guess this is the issue with noPK in any form.

3. Not being able to kill a player that is 5 levels lower than you. I.E. If you are level 25, you can kill from level 20-25 only. A lowbie would also have similar effects and could not attack higher, obviously to prevent lowbies killing high players. That or if they do attack, a flag gets set and they can be killed by anyone for 5m which might be a better solution in this case. Could be higher then 5 levels too, i.e. 6, 7 etc. levels below.

4. Increasing the level 8 immunity to a higher level. For example, level 12-16. Might be eh though.

5. Some sort of cannot PK someone for X amount of minutes after killing them. Though this probably fails because if theres a group of 6 people, they can probably kill him 6 times, one per player. having to record all attackers would prob be a nightmare.


Honestly, I don't know what to do yet. As someone who came from ROK, most of us understand how it works. However, I can understand fully why new players get frustrated and leave. It's not friendly towards new players at all, it's pretty mean and cruel. I can understand its 'TOUGH LUCK' bit that some people will reply here, but we are never going to grow if the only player base is from ROK. Something does need to be done, we need to figure something out. Let's brainstorm here, and seriously try to put yourself in these peoples shoes. How would you feel as a new player who just got into MUD based games, getting slaughtered by a 25'er constantly?

zyloch
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby zyloch » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:15 pm

I started this game two weeks ago, got killed as soon as I hit 9. Most players tend to ignore you as you're leveling, however obviously this is not a universal truth. I admit it did peeve me that I was getting killed as I was learning the game, so here's what I propose.

1) New accounts have a no-pk period for about 10 hours, more or less can be argued. This means for the first 10 hours of a new ACCOUNT, not new character. They can't be a target of PK. I figure after 10 hours of swimming with the other fishes, you should have a pretty good idea of which sharks to avoid.

2) Encourage new players to join in guilds earlier, usually guild systems are a decent way to start nurturing a new player. Even if you do get killed, at least you have someone to whine about it to and possibly get help in the future from.

3)F*** BH.

Anyways that's my 2 cents.

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Metzger
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby Metzger » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:16 pm

I like the /nopk flag. Essentially you're PVE only at that point. Once you set it to /pk then you're on the hook to be PKed. The only issue here is people would probably never set to /pk until level 25, so if we implement this, I would like to see a forced decision to be made at an intermediate level, maybe ~14.

Another idea:
Level 1 - 8 are nopk.
Levels 9 - 13 can only be PKd once per day, excluding events.
Level 14+ Unlimited PKs.

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Lateralus
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby Lateralus » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:18 pm

NiteHawk wrote:Okay so. This is another touchy subject. It is to do with PVP. Obviously ROK it was pretty much unlimited, it worked probably because there was a high player base and alts. We need to seriously look at this.

There have been a lot of new players, but recently in the last week about a handful or more quit the game because of heavy pking. We need solutions to this I think. In a serious just recently a level 10 was getting slaughtered recently by a slayer over and over. He didn't understand the game, he ended up quitting. I think it's a shame we are losing players over it, but also I don't want to change the core of the game to the point where it is fluffy kitten mode.

There were some ideas brought up but it's hard to think what it the best. This is just to get the ball rolling.

1. PVE areas. Far lower EXP, (25-30%) for the same level monsters. Anything past level 20 however would never have a PVE area. (So 20-25 is always in PVP areas).

Might be ok but fragments playerbase a bit.

2. /nopk flag. Something that you set that could never be changed. The character would always be NO PK. You can not interact with players and you cannot toggle back. Would not be able to join PVP events. Issue would be running into one of these dudes and realizing you can't kill them at all, but I guess this is the issue with noPK in any form.

Ruins world pvp. Can just make a cleric who cant get killed and then team with them. wouldnt even need to be in the party could just follow you around. This would be the end of pvp in eo

3. Not being able to kill a player that is 5 levels lower than you. I.E. If you are level 25, you can kill from level 20-25 only. A lowbie would also have similar effects and could not attack higher, obviously to prevent lowbies killing high players. That or if they do attack, a flag gets set and they can be killed by anyone for 5m which might be a better solution in this case. Could be higher then 5 levels too, i.e. 6, 7 etc. levels below.

Ruins world pvp. Can just make a cleric (level 19) who cant get killed and then team with them. wouldnt even need to be in the party could just follow you around. might be able to work at say 10 levels but even a level 15 cleric who couldnt be killed would be annoying.

4. Increasing the level 8 immunity to a higher level. For example, level 12-16. Might be eh though.

I think this would be the best option to protect new players maybe set at 12 or 15? by 15 players usually have their 3rd set of gear which they usually can afford to sb. If we did level 15 it would be nice if under 15 could still attack under 15.

5. Some sort of cannot PK someone for X amount of minutes after killing them. Though this probably fails because if theres a group of 6 people, they can probably kill him 6 times, one per player. having to record all attackers would prob be a nightmare.

Again would be abused ruins pvp.


Honestly, I don't know what to do yet. As someone who came from ROK, most of us understand how it works. However, I can understand fully why new players get frustrated and leave. It's not friendly towards new players at all, it's pretty mean and cruel. I can understand its 'TOUGH LUCK' bit that some people will reply here, but we are never going to grow if the only player base is from ROK. Something does need to be done, we need to figure something out. Let's brainstorm here, and seriously try to put yourself in these peoples shoes. How would you feel as a new player who just got into MUD based games, getting slaughtered by a 25'er constantly?


Another note most of these could be bypassed by tactical rangers with level 25 pets and so on.

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Ardrahz
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby Ardrahz » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:25 pm

Or add a criminal system. if you flag someone in PvP you cant reenter town for so long, and being attacked would restart timer. would obviously need roads going around certain towns added, but would help and create the threat of retaliation.
HomeGrown

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Ardrahz
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby Ardrahz » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:28 pm

Like last night, we were able to PK BroHoods lowbies with zero reprecussion. This needs to be fixed. there is no downside to PKing, and there should be. or do something like if you kill more than X number of people, you got into statloss temporarily for an hour per kill, and only resets when you die.
HomeGrown

zyloch
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby zyloch » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:30 pm

I actually like Ardrahz criminal system. However I see certain issues with this. One of the issues is, if someone attacks you, and you successfully defend yourself and kill the attacker. You should not be labeled a criminal.

How I think it should work is, if a person attacks a person without a criminal flag and kill em, they are marked criminal. Then I want the chance of putting bounty on this motherhwmers head, so other people can exact revenge for me, if I choose not to do so.

killa
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby killa » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:43 pm

:popcorn:

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Ardrahz
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby Ardrahz » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:43 pm

think on it like this:

blue = innocent
you can openly attack greys and reds.

grey = criminal
you attacked an innocent player and have recieved this status for X seconds/minutes.

red = murderer
you can openly be attacked anywhere(even town!)
could make a town just to safely harbor murderers?
go into statloss for an hour for every kill over a set amount.
HomeGrown

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NiteHawk
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Re: PVP and newbies - What to do?

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:45 pm

3. Not being able to kill a player that is 5 levels lower than you. I.E. If you are level 25, you can kill from level 20-25 only. A lowbie would also have similar effects and could not attack higher, obviously to prevent lowbies killing high players. That or if they do attack, a flag gets set and they can be killed by anyone for 5m which might be a better solution in this case. Could be higher then 5 levels too, i.e. 6, 7 etc. levels below.

Ruins world pvp. Can just make a cleric (level 19) who cant get killed and then team with them. wouldnt even need to be in the party could just follow you around. might be able to work at say 10 levels but even a level 15 cleric who couldnt be killed would be annoying.


If this were to be added, not saying it would, a cleric could not simply interact like that as I know that would be abused, but still its not the best idea.

Pets would be bound to the same rules as their owner, so wouldnt be bypassed. I'm sure you saw that pets do not attack level 8s or under. 8)

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Criminal system is neat but yeah, it's tough to deal with because there have to be a system to determine who attacked first and record each person. It might be tough specially in some cases. On top of that what would happen if you are a criminal? I don't think stat loss is a good way to handle it. It's a good direction that we are talking about so far though. Keep it coming.

I don't think a criminal system would stop from being attacked though. They are attacking level 9's, A slayer for example could simply hide and camp, if he sees people, goes and hides somewhere cuddly. I like the system, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it solves our problem of a 25er slaughtering the young.


---

A timer might be a good idea too, not sure.


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