PK system and XP
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:56 pm
There are pros and cons of all systems. Right now the reason for no XP loss for all is it is fair, however this doesn't work for immunities as you can simply having someone kill you for an immunity. What ends up happening is that newbies will mostly suffer for it if they are abused, and other people can just mass kill with no risk.
In the end I think it hurts the game PVP wise. One reason is there is very little risk of dying, there is no threat, but because of this, you can't implement a stop mechanic, aka immune or prevent someone from dying through system means automatically without it being abused. Thus lower levels can get smacked in the face (granted it's OK to die, but if it's abusable it's a problem.) and trying to add a prevention to this hurts level 25ers/pvpers more.
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Some discussed/slightly modified options.
1. A notoriety system. However, you can't just toss this on level 25ers as now suddenly PKing becomes not a risk at all. It would generally work that you have a notoriety bar. Let us say it goes from -10 to 0, and you start at 0. If you kill someone, you get -1. If you wait out some time or kill a PKer, you get +1. When you die, you either get a sickness or go into jail/limbo for a set amount of time until your notoriety system goes back to 0, where you are released. Unsure if you could get positive points, I think it could be a thing but you may only gain a small amount and not a full point each time. This is a neat idea HOWEVER you need to pair it with EXP loss, otherwise it would shut down PKing IMO. It also could be said that it either wouldn't work in certain PVP areas like oad bosses/keys/etcs or maybe wouldn't count on 25er vs 25er fights, only lowbie smacking. Maybe city guards would attack you, maybe you could be attacked in cities as well. If you had -10 notoriety you might alert everyone that you are a mass killer and global pings would be sent out of your general area to people so that PKKers can come kill you. How long you should be jailed or sat losses, duration of jail time/etc is something I would wonder about. Maybe even pay to decrease it though it would be costly. Depends how slow it will decrease... But generally the more you kill, the more penalties you'll have, the harder it is to remove!
2. A modified XP loss which could be pair up with 2) or another system. WAIT WAIT. DON'T FREAK OUT JUST YET. The idea that was brought up might work here. XP loss would be a thing, however, you would only be able to lose up to lets say 1% of your total XP, regardless of how many deaths you have. For example, if you have 100mil, then you can only drop to 99mil, regardless of how many times you die. So it would be based on the highest experience you have on the character, and it means that even though you can lose some XP, you won't lose millions of it if you die in a row/etc.
3. Using 3) but everyone can suffer XP loss up to a degree. This means that level 25'ers could lose XP to up to a degree. You would be able to stack some experience (so you can prevent XP loss on a level 25) and if you dipped below it, you would get a temporary stat loss or level loss. Once you get your experience back up, you would automatically recover the level. People said that you should also have to pay, but I find that to be a hassle, I think a auto loss/recover is a better way to go if we were to use this system. Obviously this probably means the notoriety system shouldn't be used and it should just be based off XP loss.
4. Using 3) or the original XP loss as it was with a modified immunity system. I will discuss the immunity system later.
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Immunity System
If a immunity system were in place we could do the following:
1. Same as before, modify how many times you could die. Depending on what people think you could die X per Y hours. You would lose immunity if you attack or heal someone in PVP mode.
2. Instead of a straight up immunity system, don't allow the same group (Person, party, maybe guild?) to kill the same person over for an hour, UNLESS THEY ATTACK YOU FIRST (or you heal someone in PVP mode that they are aggressing.) This means you could still die to others, but a individual/group will leave you alone and knows to leave you alone, at least for an hour. This would be a straight up kill them once, chill for an hour. I think i would only be under level 25ers too, as the original immunity system was.
Let me stress for 1. you need XP loss again, otherwise I feel like here is no point to PK, even less than there is now. 2. might work without any XP changes but that depends if people would like that.
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Another suggestion was that the way who you could PK be adjusted. I don't really know about this as I feel it could be too restrictive, but the idea was that you could only PK someone 3 levels below/higher than you. This means you would probably level alts at certain levels, but it probably also means a super hassle hunting people unless their level was shown. Even still it would be tougher. You could also make PVP start at level 9 really. I see the pros and cons in this, but I think it might end up being a hassle to find fights or having to login a level 16 alt to kill someone. Obviously this would not apply in certain areas like OAD bosses/keys etc.
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Another idea is that regardless if we don\t change it, newbies (true newbies) need a bit more protection. For example, someone who has no level 25ers would be considered a newbie. They may need extra protection (i.E. to level full immunity instead of level 16) or if we add XP loss, maybe they get a reduced or no XP loss until they get their first character to 25.
Invisible pots, another suggestion. Would be similar to fade without any bonuses. Not sure if this is really a good idea as it will make level 25 really abusable and the only way to not have that, is to say that only level 24 and under can use these pots, and can only use them out of combat or in a city. They aren't terrible but I don\t really know how I feel about them.
The last idea, which I am not so keen on but will post here to see how people feel, is a togglepvp button. toggling PVP off means that you would get 25-30-40-50% less experience (number depends, dunno). You could not insta toggle it back. That is all there is to it. You would still be PKable in certain key areas obviously.
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I am interested on peoples take on all of this. I won't make it a poll, but state what you want/like. Can be a mix of things, can be your own new idea. Thanks!
In the end I think it hurts the game PVP wise. One reason is there is very little risk of dying, there is no threat, but because of this, you can't implement a stop mechanic, aka immune or prevent someone from dying through system means automatically without it being abused. Thus lower levels can get smacked in the face (granted it's OK to die, but if it's abusable it's a problem.) and trying to add a prevention to this hurts level 25ers/pvpers more.
---
Some discussed/slightly modified options.
1. A notoriety system. However, you can't just toss this on level 25ers as now suddenly PKing becomes not a risk at all. It would generally work that you have a notoriety bar. Let us say it goes from -10 to 0, and you start at 0. If you kill someone, you get -1. If you wait out some time or kill a PKer, you get +1. When you die, you either get a sickness or go into jail/limbo for a set amount of time until your notoriety system goes back to 0, where you are released. Unsure if you could get positive points, I think it could be a thing but you may only gain a small amount and not a full point each time. This is a neat idea HOWEVER you need to pair it with EXP loss, otherwise it would shut down PKing IMO. It also could be said that it either wouldn't work in certain PVP areas like oad bosses/keys/etcs or maybe wouldn't count on 25er vs 25er fights, only lowbie smacking. Maybe city guards would attack you, maybe you could be attacked in cities as well. If you had -10 notoriety you might alert everyone that you are a mass killer and global pings would be sent out of your general area to people so that PKKers can come kill you. How long you should be jailed or sat losses, duration of jail time/etc is something I would wonder about. Maybe even pay to decrease it though it would be costly. Depends how slow it will decrease... But generally the more you kill, the more penalties you'll have, the harder it is to remove!
2. A modified XP loss which could be pair up with 2) or another system. WAIT WAIT. DON'T FREAK OUT JUST YET. The idea that was brought up might work here. XP loss would be a thing, however, you would only be able to lose up to lets say 1% of your total XP, regardless of how many deaths you have. For example, if you have 100mil, then you can only drop to 99mil, regardless of how many times you die. So it would be based on the highest experience you have on the character, and it means that even though you can lose some XP, you won't lose millions of it if you die in a row/etc.
3. Using 3) but everyone can suffer XP loss up to a degree. This means that level 25'ers could lose XP to up to a degree. You would be able to stack some experience (so you can prevent XP loss on a level 25) and if you dipped below it, you would get a temporary stat loss or level loss. Once you get your experience back up, you would automatically recover the level. People said that you should also have to pay, but I find that to be a hassle, I think a auto loss/recover is a better way to go if we were to use this system. Obviously this probably means the notoriety system shouldn't be used and it should just be based off XP loss.
4. Using 3) or the original XP loss as it was with a modified immunity system. I will discuss the immunity system later.
--------
Immunity System
If a immunity system were in place we could do the following:
1. Same as before, modify how many times you could die. Depending on what people think you could die X per Y hours. You would lose immunity if you attack or heal someone in PVP mode.
2. Instead of a straight up immunity system, don't allow the same group (Person, party, maybe guild?) to kill the same person over for an hour, UNLESS THEY ATTACK YOU FIRST (or you heal someone in PVP mode that they are aggressing.) This means you could still die to others, but a individual/group will leave you alone and knows to leave you alone, at least for an hour. This would be a straight up kill them once, chill for an hour. I think i would only be under level 25ers too, as the original immunity system was.
Let me stress for 1. you need XP loss again, otherwise I feel like here is no point to PK, even less than there is now. 2. might work without any XP changes but that depends if people would like that.
--------
Another suggestion was that the way who you could PK be adjusted. I don't really know about this as I feel it could be too restrictive, but the idea was that you could only PK someone 3 levels below/higher than you. This means you would probably level alts at certain levels, but it probably also means a super hassle hunting people unless their level was shown. Even still it would be tougher. You could also make PVP start at level 9 really. I see the pros and cons in this, but I think it might end up being a hassle to find fights or having to login a level 16 alt to kill someone. Obviously this would not apply in certain areas like OAD bosses/keys etc.
--------
Another idea is that regardless if we don\t change it, newbies (true newbies) need a bit more protection. For example, someone who has no level 25ers would be considered a newbie. They may need extra protection (i.E. to level full immunity instead of level 16) or if we add XP loss, maybe they get a reduced or no XP loss until they get their first character to 25.
Invisible pots, another suggestion. Would be similar to fade without any bonuses. Not sure if this is really a good idea as it will make level 25 really abusable and the only way to not have that, is to say that only level 24 and under can use these pots, and can only use them out of combat or in a city. They aren't terrible but I don\t really know how I feel about them.
The last idea, which I am not so keen on but will post here to see how people feel, is a togglepvp button. toggling PVP off means that you would get 25-30-40-50% less experience (number depends, dunno). You could not insta toggle it back. That is all there is to it. You would still be PKable in certain key areas obviously.
----
I am interested on peoples take on all of this. I won't make it a poll, but state what you want/like. Can be a mix of things, can be your own new idea. Thanks!