The present and future of Ember Online

Terron
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby Terron » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:37 pm

i love long oad areas personally. but in the refinery's case its almost entirely key farming and key bosses. in areas that are generally that large the main boss should respawn with the damage on it much like crimson dragon. and the "key" bosses shouldnt always drop keys. theres no reason that a 9 boss oad cant end at boss 3 or even boss 1, where they drop loot instead of key. in that sense a trip could take 2+ hours or it could be done in 15 minutes.

in defense of the refinery its a nice area loaded with cool stuff to explore. i like it. its much appreciated.
refinery is a long oad, perhaps some quicker, smaller area, smaller reward, smaller party type oads could be added around the game to compliment it. that way it isnt every player ingame focused on 3 hr oad trips opposed to 4 or 5 15 minute ones throughout the day.
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zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Folder
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby Folder » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:12 pm

I can appreciate long areas as well but fact is most do not like them. As the guy who coordinates all OaDs for Silh all I hear from the majority of members is that they take too long.

Obviously if we had 3x the playerbase we'd also have more people who can commit to long oad runs but as it is now they are a commitment of an entire evening. That is excessive for most people unfortunately.

Things to think about since we want people logging in and being active.
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Styx
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby Styx » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:31 am

Correct, time wise very involved. I don't do dreads. And if the new town is just as bad no point in even looking at it. Most will never see it cause of multiple keys etc

I don't mind a 30 min or hour fight if it's a oad boss.

Let the players fight it out at the boss.

Keys are fine but multiple times spread out makes it insane to attempt and even then get to see the end.

Bring back simplicity till enough people to be able to start and finish in the same day

Oad areas can be revised later to suit more difficulty.

Why not multiple bosses instead of one boss holding it all

If they want a sword go kill the one with a sword, armor etc, that way leveling areas are increased etc

If a person isn't in the big clan they will never get to explore or find out

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NiteHawk
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:45 pm

I'm fine with OADs and generally large OADs but I do agree that OADs should be an hour max when you know what you're doing. I'm not saying they should be easy to complete, but ROK had a simple system where one key would grant one party a day to run an area. TOTD for example took 2-3 months to figure out by players, but it only was about 45-60 minutes to actually run, and they'd obviously often fail. You might get closer to the goal, but you'd die in the process.

I kind of don't mind it that way. I disagree with a party fighting at the end boss for the content. I'm fine with competition at the keys, which would suffice for now.


-Gear scaling is not as big as it should be imo. By this I mean you can either, as an example, 1) easily get an Onyx Plate or 2) spend an enormous amount of time getting a Devil's Plate for 3AC more. That 3AC gives .3% damage reduction and 1.5% greater chance to absorb. It's very difficult to convince people that it's worth the effort to actually get OaDs. Weapons are a different story as they do in fact make a bigger difference. Does this make sense?


Don't wanna have the best gear, don't do it. The scaling is fine. Theres a max AC, and it's based off that, lower AC is based off the max AC. Not saying that some other gear doesn't need adjusted, but level 25 blue/purple is meant to be tougher to get. In ROK people did it for the +1 AC, and often that didn't grant much in terms of OADs only. The problem really isn't the gear to me, it's how the OADs are setup and how they are to run. It shouldn't be a whole day of grinding thing.

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NiteHawk
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:28 pm

Gonna have a meeting soon about how OADs are handled though. Again, I don't have any quarrels if the OAD isn't completed, but there needs to be a sort duration per OAD. We 'want' the oads to be run every day. Having a large grind makes it tough to do, people will get bored/tired/etc. I have a few things in mind for things anyways.

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Folder
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby Folder » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:35 pm

The solution to OaDs really isn't so complicated. We could argue the "why" all day but the fact is anything lasting longer than an hour turns people off. 20+ minute boss fights turn people off (longer than MMO bosses where you have a slew of abilities as well as different boss phases, etc.). Gear that only results in a very very small benefit turns people off.

You can't really say "don't want it don't do it" and also say you want OaDs run every day. I'm quite sure I have put more effort into OaD running than anyone else in the game (not bragging at all, trying to validate my points) and my biggest struggle is the time commitments.

I still think gear scaling is something to consider. I'm not saying make characters more powerful, what I mean is making gear scale such that there is a bigger difference between 95 and 92ac. Right now there's almost none so people are unmotivated to put the effort in. Something like where AC above a certain threshold (different for each class) has a bonus? All that said if the time commitment for OaDs were lower people would be more inclined even for the small differences.

Again a small playerbase exacerbates all of this, so that's also worth keeping in mind.
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NiteHawk
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:59 pm

Folder wrote:The solution to OaDs really isn't so complicated. We could argue the "why" all day but the fact is anything lasting longer than an hour turns people off. 20+ minute boss fights turn people off (longer than MMO bosses where you have a slew of abilities as well as different boss phases, etc.). Gear that only results in a very very small benefit turns people off.

You can't really say "don't want it don't do it" and also say you want OaDs run every day. I'm quite sure I have put more effort into OaD running than anyone else in the game (not bragging at all, trying to validate my points) and my biggest struggle is the time commitments.

I still think gear scaling is something to consider. I'm not saying make characters more powerful, what I mean is making gear scale such that there is a bigger difference between 95 and 92ac. Right now there's almost none so people are unmotivated to put the effort in. Something like where AC above a certain threshold (different for each class) has a bonus? All that said if the time commitment for OaDs were lower people would be more inclined even for the small differences.

Again a small playerbase exacerbates all of this, so that's also worth keeping in mind.


No to bonuses. You aren't understanding that the armor is based on the max values, I don't want to go higher at this time. If scaling were to change, what would basically happen is that armor for all classes would have to be lowered and then per point difference would be higher. Virtually what would happen is that lower AC would lose percentage while the max AC would have the same deflect/absorb rate. The armor max deflect and absorbed is based on those values. I don't want people running around with 70% absorption chance rates, that would be mental.

Agree about the OADs and time though.

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Folder
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby Folder » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:09 pm

I know how armor works :P. Like I said it's not about going higher, it's about considering changing the scaling such that the top end is still the same but there's more of a gap between high-end items and easily obtainable items. The point is if, and I'm making numbers up here, that someone can be 90% as effective in gear obtained from stores/quests/orange minibosses as someone in full OaDs then they are less likely to want to spend the effort on OaDs.

As an actual example look at the AC of a Flaming Hakama and compare it to Spectral Robes or a Shark Fin Vest. No one does Salamander anymore. It's a PITA to farm blue shards and takes a non-fun amount of time, but more importantly the gear you get is either 1) a drum lul, 2) worse than gear off orange mobs, or 3) not sufficiently better than a void cloak which can be solo farmed.

Time to kill needs to be considered, and item rewards need to be considered as well. Also staves should affect penetration more because as it is now the difference is so small staves -always- go to ninjas first. You said yourself you want people doing OaDs every day - I'm giving you the reasons they aren't being done.

Our goals are the same here, we want people out and about enjoying the world people work so hard to build :).
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Kenichi
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby Kenichi » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:17 pm

I cant remember when we finish Totd in like 15 mins once? :lol:

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Eld
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Re: The present and future of Ember Online

Postby Eld » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:48 pm

Kenichi wrote:I cant remember when we finish Totd in like 15 mins once? :lol:


Totd speed runs were great, I remember us getting pissed if someone ruined the run by going slow.
I also remember someone wiping tragically whilst attempting a totd speed run on a trap.

hahaha... good times :)


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