PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

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daedroth
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby daedroth » Sun May 21, 2017 4:00 am

Well... why not give each race an extra 1 or 2 stat point maximum to be allocated in stats to balance. With stat increases that would aid classes that are not normally used by the race in cases where the race seems ok?

Dark Elf +1 End (physical over magic, as in more physically powerful than their cousins).
Drake Blood +1 ? (seriously... what to put it on?)
Dwarf +1 Int (people seem to think their powerful enough as it is physically and with good MR, so cant change anything to do with that, this will make them a bit smarter than goblins).
Elemental +1 Str (another hard pick, their a niche race, was thinking AGL, but then their druids OP?)
Elf +1 Str (makes em a little stronger than lings with no changes to their magical power)
Gnome +1 Str (was thinking AGL tbh... but op?)
Goblin +1 Agl (small sneaky buggers, might make em too good though, change to WIS?)
Half Elf +1 Str (to keep em in line with elfs)
Half Orc +1 Str (scary... but what else to put it on?)
Halfling +1 Agl (make em more dodgy)
Human +1 Str (cant have puny helfs stronger then em)
Saurian +1 Wis (physically good enough as is, and the extra MR wont unbalance things?)

Bah its all pish. I am sure someone could come up with something better :p

PS. the Horcs and Sauria having the same WIS... they do and they dont. The max is the same, but Horc will end up with 13, sauria 14.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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NiteHawk
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby NiteHawk » Sun May 21, 2017 5:13 am

Well that's not needed. We don't need to make a further separate between the races that will most likely be harder to balance then it is now. Only some races I think need tweaking, not many. But your changes would make alot of races in the dust.

Dwarves for example, if you look at them they have high END, good STR/WIS, bonus to armor, magic resistance, etc. We did a 180 with them by mistake. Giving them more is a bad idea.

I think most races are good though as they are. there aren't many that need adjustments. :P

anthriel
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby anthriel » Sun May 21, 2017 5:32 am

NiteHawk wrote:
Reaper wrote:I know you guys are working hard on balancing the game and all but some of these theoretical changes are a little drastic.

If you start changing major stats on currently used races we need free race changes for our characters. It takes a long time to lvl one and to render it crappy in the eyes of the user...that sucks. If Elementals are brought down in wisdom I def do not want my Elemental Elder. I don't really see what is so imbalanced with it. I've been killed 0/3 vs an elf elder on my elemental. Gnomes get an bigger agi boost, and dwarfs get a ton of HP.

I don't really understand the point of trying to make everything uniform. I think all the classes and races should feel different for different things. I like how lower MR classes get annihilated by magic, but have an advantage in physical. I even like how high MR classes are pretty much unkillable by magic users(and I main a magic user.) To me it gives flavor and makes me think about who to attack and things like that. You already showed that agi does in fact matter, and we are dumb lol.

If halflings are having trouble, maybe they need some stat changes. Give them like 19 str, then they are comparable to DE's, you either choose +1 agi as a halfling or +1 str as a dark elf. The end can stay the same since halflings can also get high chr. They will balance each other out, both will be good, and boom halfling solved.

I mean I think everyone is super over complicating this whole thing.


I do agree with you on elementals, I don't really wanna shift their Wisdom. While I agree with lings for example, I disagree with the logic of MR. There is no real middle ground to MR. It's either you get destroyed or you destroy when it comes to fighting.

It's not making everything uniform. Lings should lose to HO for example. Saurians can kill hos often, Magic users should kill hors/saurians but die to elves, etc. It's just that a 90% pierce rate vs a 20% pierce rate is simply crazy. Unkillable is 'NOT' fun to most players. It's broken to me and it will be changed. Even though for example lings lose to HOs more so, there still a chance of winning. I want a game where the game is balanced. But balance doesn't mean all races have to be equal. However, it also means it shouldn't be simply crazy and unfair too.

I get people are afraid of things but I have no intension of destroying races, but they need to be fair. If we mess up in some way, we'll buff. That's the benefit of having an active developer.


NH, thankyou for your work in re-balancing the races and the assurance that you are actively committed to ensure that players won't be left feeling inadequately compensated for the effects of re-balancing.

I don't have any ideas yet on balancing Dwarves but I do have some re Elemental Druids. If you don't want to reduce their racial 23 (max24) WIS, then the only other option I can think about is re-tooling the formulas for calculating morph bonuses to take into account Base STR and AGI alongside WIS. The current formulae calculate morph bonuses entirely off WIS. This obviously means Elementals benefit the most with a +3 WIS on most races of possible Druids. An alternative kind of formula is shown below:

Eg. Morph AGI bonus = (Base AGI/ 2) * WIS * 0.01

For DE this would be = (22/2)*20*0.01 = +2.2
For Elemental this would be = (19/2)*24*0.01 = +2.28

Obviously this is not the exact formula I'd use and you'd probably want to tinker it to achieve a desired difference for each stat (eg you may want a 24 WIS Ele to get +3AGI compared to 20 Wis DE getting +2.2AGI) ... But the example basically serves to illustrate the idea that the Base STR/AGI stats (in the first bracket) play some roll alongside WIS within the formula.

This could achieve re-balancing of Druids by somewhat taking the pressure off morph bonuses entirely being based on WIS where Elementals are the clear outlier by several points ....and it promotes diversity of Druid races with DE, Lings, Human, HE etc able to close the gap somewhat despite only being able to access max 21 WIS

(Ps I'm mainly talking about Cat morph above... Bear is not really on my mind at this stage cos I doubt anyone makes Druids with Bear morph in mind)

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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Dan » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:44 am

From my experience it looks like agi doesn't matter too much.

I just fought a guildie drake 23 agi, with my monk 24 agi.

In three turns he RH 2 times, what would mean at least 6/12, and i hit him 1/12.

I would like to know if leveling a halfling monk was a mistake...

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Tucker
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Tucker » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:04 am

Dan wrote:From my experience it looks like agi doesn't matter too much.

I just fought a guildie drake 23 agi, with my monk 24 agi.

In three turns he RH 2 times, what would mean at least 6/12, and i hit him 1/12.

I would like to know if leveling a halfling monk was a mistake...


12 hits means virtully nothing run more duels and it'll balance out with you hitting slightly more

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daedroth
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby daedroth » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:07 am

Tucker wrote:
Dan wrote:From my experience it looks like agi doesn't matter too much.

I just fought a guildie drake 23 agi, with my monk 24 agi.

In three turns he RH 2 times, what would mean at least 6/12, and i hit him 1/12.

I would like to know if leveling a halfling monk was a mistake...


12 hits means virtully nothing run more duels and it'll balance out with you hitting slightly more


Nah nah, 3 rounds against one opponent is all it takes to know if your character sucks or not!
Sorry sorry...
@Dan The hit rate and dodge is a bit random. Agility does not matter as much as it did old rok (if you played that), but it still does matter. There is not much of a difference between 23 and 24 agility though, so even if you duel more you will not see too much of a difference.
In saying that, a ling ninja is likely to lose to a drake ninja due to STR/END difference. Drake will have 20 END (thats 180 more hit points, ignoring CHR, it means the drake can take about 2 more hits) plus the drake will have 3 more strength, which means more damage...
The ling will be better able to fight casters though.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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NiteHawk
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:48 am

AGI is 2% per HR. Monks have a little more then what I'm talking about here, but ignoring that... If you have 18 vs 23 agi its 10% difference. So your hit rate is 50%. and that person attacking you would have 30%. (20% difference, 10% each way.)

The difference with HOs is they can be extremely lucky or extremely unlucky due to it too.

However, HO's cannot really fight magic users as a ling can, with some wisdom points put into it. You'll be seeing MR changes though that should help mid range MR/etc. Right now you really need high wisdom (20+) to deal with enchanters but it's a bit strange and again, is being looked at.

The dodge per AGI will probably be looked at too but not next patch. I do want to adjust it a little for high agi to be a little bit better but I don't think it's honestly too far off but HO's/Saurians will normally be better brawlers no matter how we deal with it, because they sacrifice the ability to combat magic users. It's a rock paper scissors thing. (High MR > Spellcasters > Brawlers > High MR type thing). It doesn't mean they WON'T win against a HO/Saurian, but it does mean their changes could be lower. Otherwise what's the point in going with a saurian or HO if simply having AGI trumps everything?

Having 23 or 24 agi doesn't mean you are going to have a minimum hit rate either. You're chances of hitting more and doging more are higher, but you can have a bad day too.

I.E. you dodge 0-50% against a HO.
The Ho dodges 0-30% against your Ling.

24 agi ling vs er 23 agi ling (again ignoring the Monk bonus) would be 0-42% (24agi) vs 0-38% (23 agi)

So yeah random is a factor. I could see adding a minimum dodge rate to the dodge changes (and might be a good idea) to reduce the randomness a little, which might make it more fair for lings/etc and make them more predictable rather then adjusting dodge rates, but that something I will take a look in the near future. MR first, tweaking AGI second. Basing anything off just a duel or two would be a pretty bad way of balancing things though.

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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Folder » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:42 pm

Dan wrote:I would like to know if leveling a halfling monk was a mistake...


Yes.

Lings and Gnomes are garbage in group fights. Enjoy getting dumpstered :D .
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daedroth
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby daedroth » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:21 pm

Folder wrote:
Dan wrote:I would like to know if leveling a halfling monk was a mistake...


Yes.

Lings and Gnomes are garbage in group fights. Enjoy getting dumpstered :D .


...But... I have a halfling monk... and a few other halflings and... one gnome... :cry:
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Folder » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:22 pm

Me too buddy, and they always die.
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