PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 2990
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:30 pm

Well if they are that terrible we best change that eh, they shouldn't be as bad as you claim 8)

Dan
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:35 am

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Dan » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:56 pm

NH, i think to make hit chance less luck based is good.

But in the long run lings would be eaten by drakes anyway, because of the str end factor.

BUT

You could make lings (and probably gnomes, less effectively) have a passive agi based dodge bonus. What would make sense since they are phisically small and fast.

And would balance things without make them op.

User avatar
Folder
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:04 am
Location: Texas

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Folder » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:55 pm

NiteHawk wrote:Well if they are that terrible we best change that eh, they shouldn't be as bad as you claim 8)


We've discussed this quite a lot before. 1v1 they are not that bad, mathematically. But the problem lies in group fights - when there are 5 DPS hitting a target it is much, much easier to drop 900hp than it is to drop 1200hp. AGI does not save lings/gnomes here.

I have a ling guard and a gnome chanter and frankly I wish I never leveled either of them as they are not at all good in group fighting, which is what I enjoy most.

Is the answer make agi better? Maybe but this skews 1v1 and we don't want that either. Lings should be at a disadvantage (not HUGE of course) 1v1 vs the strong melee races. If we simply up agi then we easily risk making lings good at 1v1 AND group fights.

Meh I only play 20+end races in group fights now, and I lurves my dwarf cav when it comes to surviving :D .
<Silhouette>

Dan
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:35 am

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Dan » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:34 pm

Why lings should be weak vs "strong melee races" while elders can take out casters and still do good against melee?

I think every class should have a decent chance on 1v1.

In the case of lings, passive agi based dosge bonus could do the job and still make sense imho.

User avatar
Folder
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:04 am
Location: Texas

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Folder » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:03 am

You're comparing apples to oranges there. Elders is a different topic.

Lings need to be weaker vs strong melee because lings also have MR. There's zero reason to make a lizard/drake/orc if lings are just as competitive in straight melee fights because the other races get BBQd by casters.

This isn't just halflings, it's gnomes as well. Lower HP in group fights is the issue...but balancing it is not easy because 1v1 is also a thing. I don't have a perfect answer here I'm just trying to spur some discussion.

edit: for a quick touch on the elder issue - they are THE 1v1 class basically. But an elder in group fights is borderline pointless. No group buffs, which I'll keep arguing for, means they don't bring haste utility. They need to be unmorphed to FF which means they will be taking high amounts of damage if targeted. Their damage is nothing special, it is outshined by ninjas and slayers (and zerkers but who uses those huehue).
<Silhouette>

Dan
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:35 am

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Dan » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:01 am

I bring elders to the discussion because they have the same advantage as lings do: MR. And stkll do ok against other melee.

When NH change MR to be less effective, elders wont be op, and lings will be worst than they are atm.

This rock scissor paper meta is too simplistic to this game. It doesn't feel right.

Its ok to have advantage, but make it not too great will give the game diversity, and diversity is very entretaining.

User avatar
Lateralus
Posts: 932
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:21 pm

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Lateralus » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:08 pm

Dan wrote:I bring elders to the discussion because they have the same advantage as lings do: MR. And stkll do ok against other melee.

When NH change MR to be less effective, elders wont be op, and lings will be worst than they are atm.

This rock scissor paper meta is too simplistic to this game. It doesn't feel right.

Its ok to have advantage, but make it not too great will give the game diversity, and diversity is very entretaining.


Even after mr gets changed they will still be tops against casters that's not going to go away. It's not like nitehawk is going to make it so caster destroys everything.


Elders are the top 1v1 pvp class by far (they have no weakness and are strong against everyone) I am not just making this up the stats show it. I believe up until the last koth they won the last 6 koths in a row. An elder this last koth won 12 matches in a row. The elder finally died to well another eldeR. While 1v1 shouldn't matter too much I'd say most events ran are 1v1 based so it is kind of a big deal. Koth and jr koth are ran weekly. Cycle down and gamblers luck are also 1v1 events.

It's not like druids are bad at group pvp either. I'd say they are top tier in that too with healing, buffs and debuffs.

Tldr: make an elemental elder if you want all the pp

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 2990
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:59 am

They'll still be hard to take down as it is, but just not as strong. Because they often have high wisdom you'll have his resists. I'm mainly making it easier to deal with and making the min/max range less erratic. Plus giving a chance for lower INT spell casters to be useful too. I won't be adjusting too much dodge/etc wise this next update coming, so theres probably going to be a little unbalance until we sort that out next too.

User avatar
Miach
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby Miach » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:16 am

One thing I want to add:

So the focus isn't on AGI, so what? +1 that strength and move on.

I'm tired of people thinking 23-24 agility gonna make them a god, it ain't gonna save you! 2% one way or the other is meaningless.

Max out your race's natural agility and move on! Not all races are going to be equal, everything has its niche.

you want something well-rounded go human

User avatar
JadeFalcon
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:29 am

Re: PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

Postby JadeFalcon » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:52 am

Trying to sort this out. Its a bit of a draft, so if anyone points out anything, ill change
Edited once, blame folder.

b]Enchanters:[/b]
Strong points:
Support spells
Extremely good versus Low MR races
Weak Points:
Reduced damage versus High MR Races


Death Mages:
Strong points:
Better combat spells
Extremely good versus Low MR races
Weak Points:
Reduced damage versus High MR Races


Elder Druids:
Strong points:
Better combat spells
Good damage potential
Weak Points:
Highly vulnerable unmorphed.


Priests:
Strong points:
Support spells
Good versus Low MR races
Weak Points:
Reduced damage versus everyone


Minstrels:
Strong points:
Support spells
Weak Points:
Reduced damage versus everyone


Guardians:
Strong points:
Can Protect
Support spells
Weak Points:
Low offensive potential

Stalkers:
Strong points:
Have pets
Weak Points:
Low offensive potential


Slayers (High MR races)
Strong Point:
Hide/Sneak
High Damage
Can conceivably one round an enemy
Weak Points:
Inferior to Low MR Races in comparable rogue/fighter classes
Elder Druid Fodder


Slayers (Low MR races)
Strong Point:
Hide/Sneak
High Damage
Can conceivably one round an enemy
Superior to high MR Races in comparable rogue/fighter classes
Weak Point:
Enchanter fodder
Elder Druid Fodder


Ninjas (High MR races)
Strong Point:
High Damage
AC Bonus
Can conceivably one round an enemy
Weak Point:
Inferior to high MR Races in comparable rogue/fighter classes


Ninjas (Low MR races)
Strong Point:
High Damage
AC Bonus
Can conceivably one round an enemy
Superior to high MR Races in comparable rogue/fighter classes
Weak Point:
Enchanter fodder


Cavaliers (High MR races)
Strong Point:
High HP
Good damage
Weak Points:
Inferior to Low MR Races in comparable rogue/fighter classes


Cavaliers (Low MR races)
Strong Point:
High HP
Good damage
Superior to high MR Races in Comparable rogue/fighter classes
Weak Point:
Enchanter fodder


Berzerkers (High MR races)
Strong Point:
High HP
Good damage
Weak Points:
Inferior to Low MR Races in comparable rogue/fighter classes


Berzerkers (Low MR races)
Strong Point:
High HP
Good damage
Superior to high MR Races in Comparable rogue/fighter classes
Weak Point:
Enchanter fodder


Brigands (High MR races)
Strong Point:
Hide/Autosneak/Steal
Weak Points:
Inferior to Low MR Races in comparable rogue/fighter classes


Brigands (Low MR races)
Strong Point:
Hide/Autosneak/Steal
Superior to high MR Races in Comparable rogue/fighter classes
Weak Point:
Enchanter fodder
Last edited by JadeFalcon on Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

Proud member, Halfling Appreciation Club

HAC Tip of the Week:
Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!


Return to “Archive Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest