PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

[Lateralus]

But what good is that 200 hp against chanters if they still lose? They are both chanter food.

Even right now it makes somewhat of a difference in battles. ho have a lot easier time beating casters than lizard and when mr changes come and both classes have some resistance that 200hp will be even more important.

[Lateralus]

Something to think about when flattening the mr curve. Its basically going to be a buff to the power races like halforc drake saur and a nerf to the balance races (many of which are made simply to survive magic otherwise people would be going with the power races always).

Even now with 0 mr resistance id say you still see more halforc drake saur monks, assassins, barbs than you do of the balance races imo. cant wait to see the real numbers when we get those analytics

[Folder]

200HP is a lot, that's an extra 2 blasts which can certainly make all the difference.

Yea you're right Lat it is in effect a buff to those races but IMO it shouldn't be too much. Low WIS should still be getting fried but right now they are like turbo ultra mega giga deep fried...

[NiteHawk]

I am thinking about the future guys though. I can understand saurians killing HOs then.

The issue comes with upping AGI is what I'm saying. It means saurians DESTROY HOs. But lings are left out if we don't do anything. I unfortunatly don't exactly know what we should do here as people complain that AGI doesn't 'matter', but if we raise AGI it's going to make races like saurians too op unless something else was reduced, like END HP per point. But then you're faced with HO's getting a shaft then.


Saurians have more wis then HOs. So they might be better off in the end if you actually go this way because of the increased buff in the lower MR. I'm not saying they will win against casters, and will obviously die more, but it might be better to be saurian, specially if theres an AGI increase etc. Follow me there?

So pretty much what's the goal still. What is the ideas we got. 8) I'm really clueless here on what can be done to make AGI better without hurting other classes unless END/etc per point is higher/lower depending on what we do..

[Lateralus]

Maybe a slight tweak to agi like suggested earlier and a few stat changes to balance out?

Agi to 2.25

Lizard to 18end (with the agi buff it would bring them back on level with ho?)
Elemental to 22wis (with 23-24 wis they are the clear choice for druids)
Halfling to (maybe a natural 2-3% dodge whatever makes them in line with how you want them fairing against orc)
Dwarf to 16-18wis (right now have best defense hp and a top mr making them unkillable to casters)


Also don't lizard and half orc both have max 14wis? Why would lizard have better mr?

[NiteHawk]

Maybe a slight tweak to agi like suggested earlier and a few stat changes to balance out?

Agi to 2.25

Lizard to 18end (with the agi buff it would bring them back on level with ho?)
Elemental to 22wis (with 23-24 wis they are the clear choice for druids)
Halfling to (maybe a natural 2-3% dodge whatever makes them in line with how you want them fairing against orc)
Dwarf to 16-18wis (right now have best defense hp and a top mr making them unkillable to casters)


Also don't lizard and half orc both have max 14wis? Why would lizard have better mr?

Right abouts HOs' and lizards, my bad.

It would put them on par with current lizards yeah. Dwarf too is a problem but as we talked about it I feel like we'd ruin alot of characters by lowering wis to 18 unless we either offered them free race changes if they are druids or did something else. 22 end would probably be better for them and removing the -10 spell resistance. (again something that can be discussed later on.)

Elementals are touchy. I feel like they wouldn't be so used if it was 22 wis. But maybe that's wrong. They could still be okay to do higher END and whatnot. it would probably put them in line with everything else. Something small needs to be adjusted on them though.

Lings is another issue. I don't want to give a random dodge bonus as I think that's wierd. If we want them to have 2% more dodge we would give them +1 agi, which what you said, would be 2.25% more agi.. I wonder if that would be too much though. It's already +2 agi past everyone else, would that out-shadow other races?

Let's do MR first and then we'll see about stats.

[Reaper]

I know you guys are working hard on balancing the game and all but some of these theoretical changes are a little drastic.

If you start changing major stats on currently used races we need free race changes for our characters. It takes a long time to lvl one and to render it crappy in the eyes of the user...that sucks. If Elementals are brought down in wisdom I def do not want my Elemental Elder. I don't really see what is so imbalanced with it. I've been killed 0/3 vs an elf elder on my elemental. Gnomes get an bigger agi boost, and dwarfs get a ton of HP.

I don't really understand the point of trying to make everything uniform. I think all the classes and races should feel different for different things. I like how lower MR classes get annihilated by magic, but have an advantage in physical. I even like how high MR classes are pretty much unkillable by magic users(and I main a magic user.) To me it gives flavor and makes me think about who to attack and things like that. You already showed that agi does in fact matter, and we are dumb lol.

If halflings are having trouble, maybe they need some stat changes. Give them like 19 str, then they are comparable to DE's, you either choose +1 agi as a halfling or +1 str as a dark elf. The end can stay the same since halflings can also get high chr. They will balance each other out, both will be good, and boom halfling solved.

I mean I think everyone is super over complicating this whole thing.

[NiteHawk]

I know you guys are working hard on balancing the game and all but some of these theoretical changes are a little drastic.

If you start changing major stats on currently used races we need free race changes for our characters. It takes a long time to lvl one and to render it crappy in the eyes of the user...that sucks. If Elementals are brought down in wisdom I def do not want my Elemental Elder. I don't really see what is so imbalanced with it. I've been killed 0/3 vs an elf elder on my elemental. Gnomes get an bigger agi boost, and dwarfs get a ton of HP.

I don't really understand the point of trying to make everything uniform. I think all the classes and races should feel different for different things. I like how lower MR classes get annihilated by magic, but have an advantage in physical. I even like how high MR classes are pretty much unkillable by magic users(and I main a magic user.) To me it gives flavor and makes me think about who to attack and things like that. You already showed that agi does in fact matter, and we are dumb lol.

If halflings are having trouble, maybe they need some stat changes. Give them like 19 str, then they are comparable to DE's, you either choose +1 agi as a halfling or +1 str as a dark elf. The end can stay the same since halflings can also get high chr. They will balance each other out, both will be good, and boom halfling solved.

I mean I think everyone is super over complicating this whole thing.

I do agree with you on elementals, I don't really wanna shift their Wisdom. While I agree with lings for example, I disagree with the logic of MR. There is no real middle ground to MR. It's either you get destroyed or you destroy when it comes to fighting.

It's not making everything uniform. Lings should lose to HO for example. Saurians can kill hos often, Magic users should kill hors/saurians but die to elves, etc. It's just that a 90% pierce rate vs a 20% pierce rate is simply crazy. Unkillable is 'NOT' fun to most players. It's broken to me and it will be changed. Even though for example lings lose to HOs more so, there still a chance of winning. I want a game where the game is balanced. But balance doesn't mean all races have to be equal. However, it also means it shouldn't be simply crazy and unfair too.

I get people are afraid of things but I have no intension of destroying races, but they need to be fair. If we mess up in some way, we'll buff. That's the benefit of having an active developer.

[Reaper]

Yea, I know MR is getting changed. I'm not really against it, I was just pointing out it's not THAT bad in the grand scheme of things. I just think some of the changes suggested were starting to get out of hand. I mean no idea or suggestion is bad. I just think sometimes it starts to snowball.

[NiteHawk]

Yea, I know MR is getting changed. I'm not really against it, I was just pointing out it's not THAT bad in the grand scheme of things. I just think some of the changes suggested were starting to get out of hand. I mean no idea or suggestion is bad. I just think sometimes it starts to snowball.

I think it's okay to talk about. There's a lot of grand schemes people come up with, often I get ideas from it too. In terms of balance I don't think we're far off, I think there's a couple offender races, but I don't think it's terrible, so I wouldn't be doing extremes.