Race Stat Changes

[Dan]

I agree about INT matter more for healing spells, anything under 18 INT shouldn't be much worth.

[Lateralus]

I agree about INT matter more for healing spells, anything under 18 INT shouldn't be much worth.

I am not saying dwarf and goblin should be bad I love race diversity and think they should be an option. However I think its a little silly Dwarf sits as the best healer both paladin and probably cleric as well. Gnome clerics are basically non existent (I understand a bit due to hp but if their healing power was worth taking over dwarf that would help). Im not saying raise gnome either I just think maybe the base should start a bit lower is all and there be a bit more range.

[Dan]

I agree with diversity, i am saying that if a dwarf wants to be a decent healer, it should sacrifice its physical enough to be balanced.

[NiteHawk]

There is only so much you can do with stats. What if we added a 3rd dimension to tweak and adjust NiteHawk?

Adjusting Stam recover time for indivual races would add a 3rd dimension instead of being 2d with being restricted to just stat adjustments.

For example Lings could have quicker stam recovery time (About half the rate of haste or w/e) while H/o's have a slightly slower stam recover time. Just thinking outside the box. Then when it comes time to balance you can have more variables to adjust to balance races than just a black and white +/- stats.

It's a good idea but they actually tried Stan refresh rate and I think halfling were super op. I was on break but I don't think it lasted long?

Yeah and it was only a 0.5 second shave and they become OP. Stamina changes aren't a great idea I think as it makes it harder to balance rather than easier in the long run.

Please keep spells off here. It's really for another topic TBH and it another ball game. I get it is part of balancing a little but the stats themselves I think we have a good idea on how things are going to be and raising the amount healed per INT etc is fine, but you cant expect 19 to 20 INT going to be extremely different in any situation. Regardless, it's still a point or two gone where another race can do it, and you might want to be more efficient.


DE's are kinda better with +1 end and I am wondering if they even need it tbh to keep balance with the END changes. They would end up with 1000 HP instead of 1050 which seems OK. The problem then becomes that lings kind of similar to them for priests since its -2 str for +1 agi, which might be OK. I see uses for both races and lings being priests would be OK too. Maybe lings can have lesser bonus to MR (not 5% but maybe 0% and then DE could be 5%) or something like that.

They completely overshadow HEs/etc if we don't fix them and that is a problem. Honestly not giving them the extra END point is probably OK long as most lower END Hp is being upped anyways.

So they would be as they were:

Dark elf: 20 22 18 20 20 16
Half Elf: 19 21 19 20 20 21
Human: 20 20 20 20 20 20
Elf: 18 22 18 21 21 22
Ling: 18 23 18 20 20 22



The other alternative is what was talked about, lowering int or wis. If that is the case than we need to look at how much. If you lower stats too much they are simply shitty goblins because of goblins natural MR and such. I would think at maximum you could only adjust it slightly. Something like this:

Goblin: 19 22 20 17 17 14
Dark elf: 20 22 19 19 19 16 or 20 22 19 18 19 16
Half Elf: 19 21 19 20 20 21
Human: 20 20 20 20 20 20
Elf: 18 22 18 21 21 22
Ling: 18 23 18 20 20 22


You can give DEs 2 or 3 chr points though, that would be fine too. Though again, I am wondering if just keeping the END as it is now but with lats proposed HP changes would be enough.

[Lateralus]

Yea I see that on de. I think they either need to lose some int and wis or like you said maybe not gain that end point? maybe you could give them a few chr which would allow them to be ok knights or rangers.

Imo if they are fighter elves it doesnt make sense that they are that smart or wise so maybe taking a few int / wis would be the best option. I know it kinda screws darkelf elders so maybe just a few int would work (do they really need to be elders?). They wouldnt be as good at healing or casting yet would still be tougher than reg elves. I know you dont wanna talk about spells here but taking a few int away from them + a slight mod in heal damage I think would put them where they belong. They could still be good priests and guards but halfling elf human and he would have the advantage. Either way if you take away i think it would be interesting to give them some chr to replace making them better cavs and maybe a unique ranger type?

Im honestly fine with either I think we are really close here.

[Folder]

Am a fan of this for DE: 20 22 19 18 19 16

I don't think WIS needs to go down much, if at all really. It's just the INT that is making them the superior choice for priests that is the issue. You could even 20 22 19 17 20 16 to ensure their healing isn't over the top but they still have solid MR (logically they should have solid MR as they are a fighter race with "only" 20 str).

edit: as far as CHR I don't see people using them for rangers unless CHR is at 20 or above, and that's a pretty sizable bump. My cav is 10 CHR, it's not exactly required for them.

[Styx]

On second thought of we start dropping int it will hinder the Thief ability in certain aspects.

Please take it into consideration unless people want a bunch of.gnome brigs

On the subject which should be on another post, could guardians heal be based on chr instead of int. This way higher chr classes would benefit more, hates this cause mine has high int for heal. But it would make dwarf more so of a melee fighter, yall choice

[Lateralus]

On second thought of we start dropping int it will hinder the Thief ability in certain aspects.

Please take it into consideration unless people want a bunch of.gnome brigs

.

I think losing int hurts brigs a bit but keep in mind int does not factor in your steal rate. Int is only used for your resistance from being stolen from and and your hide/sneak.

That's the thing int really doesn't matter much at all for brigs (or healers for that matter) you hardly see any gnome brigs there might be a handful in the whole game.


On the topic of dark elves maybe it's best to go back to 18end and maybe toss them a pool point or 2 like I initially suggested? It seems taking int or wis does damage some combos but lower end can be delt with?

I think these work:
20 22 18 20 20 16 +1-2 pool points (overall weaker but more diverse for classes)

20 22 19 19 19 18 (more melee based but cuts out druids also makes guards / clerics weaker)

[Styx]

What about traps n locks when they are implemented? I thought int determined it. And yes steal was based on agi

[NiteHawk]

I think for DE's it might be better to just keep it at 18 END and deal with it that way. Lowering int/wis will break alot of characters and the only way around DE's is to give them a potential racial change if they want it, and I'd have to actually do it for them otherwise it wouldn't be fair. 20 22 19 17 20 16 though might be a possibility too though. Less people would require changes in that regard.

My cav is 10 CHR, it's not exactly required for them.

You kind of derp your damage negation when taunting by using only 10 char though, since damage negation effects all attacks. Not that it's a huge loss at the moment, but i think its 15% with 20 char, though obviously its a personal preference too.