Race Stat Changes

[daedroth]

Wb Terron!

[NiteHawk]

Interesting idea of rodeo's re out Agi affecting stam refresh - I like out of box thinking - tho I do agree it could make saurians abit scary

Alternatively why not put in a racial "little people" dodge bonus (similar to the monk class bonus) for Lings and gnomes. Biggest complaint re Lings I hear is ppl don't feel they dodge enough (which they attribute then to Agi not being worth it)... Biggest complain re gnomes is they die too easy... So it would help gnomes survive abit more too.... Shrug

Ps - I do like NH's ideas re making poison DoT better to make things more interesting with priests etc and I look forward to next topic regarding how magic works

Yeah that's the concern, the issue is saurians have those damn stats that are OK as it stands but the more you tweak it the better they become.

The little people bonus might be a thing but I would rather give them a agi point more instead of hidden stats, same with gnomes.

I.E.

16 22 17 23 22 20 and 18 24 17 20 20 22 .. Though obviously the concern is shadowing. Not sure it occurs here though. Looking at elves its 18 22 18 21 21 22 so for 1 end/2 str/2 chr you get 2 int/1 wis. Though the only real thing here for magic users is 50 HP for 2 int and 1 wis which might make gnomes far better for magic. Lings to me ain't a big deal if they get 1 AGI but it's the idear.

I am going to make proposal #15 and going to change the stats here and also some racial changes. If possible see how it shadows and if it makes races useless. We aren't throwing out #14 just throwing another idea in.

[NiteHawk]

Actually maybe something similar to classes dodge might work here.

I.E. gnomes and lings still have max of 21 agi and 23 agi, BUT when dodging they have +1 agi, similar to monks dodge bonus but for races. So similar to the small stat but kinda in formula I guess.

I.e. gnomes would have 21 agi when attacking but have the boost of 22 agi when dodging. A middle ground might be good cause 25 agi lings to me 'worries' me but a halver of what I talked about might be OK.

[-Z-]

Actually maybe something similar to classes dodge might work here.

I.E. gnomes and lings still have max of 21 agi and 23 agi, BUT when dodging they have +1 agi, similar to monks dodge bonus but for races. So similar to the small stat but kinda in formula I guess.

I.e. gnomes would have 21 agi when attacking but have the boost of 22 agi when dodging. A middle ground might be good cause 25 agi lings to me 'worries' me but a halver of what I talked about might be OK.

I like this NH

[Lateralus]

Yea I like that too tbh. I had avoided suggesting it just because I know you don't like giving racials that could be stats however this kind of seems like .5 agi and makes sense rp wise.

I think it's a lot more simple than giving them a faster stam refresh as well or having to write new agi systems etc.

[daedroth]

Actually I had half an idea a while ago about races having an "attack" and "defence" based on agility. Aggressive races +1attack, -1 defence etc. But eh... nm.

[Terron]

i posted about size modifiers before a page or two back under core i posted it with a dodge and damage which the damage can be ignored str is already an OP stat imo and blown out of proportion(level should grant more damage and str less, offsets half orcs/23 str saurians to stay the same and raises weak races by a little bit).

the small races need something, im not sure 50 hps is going to help. its an attempt atleast. think of the future, more oads pop out, more weapons, higher damage, more armor, higher mitigation. (future oad spellscrolls to raise caster damage after new higher damage melee weapons make it 1 sided all over again) . when you get to that point are you just going to keep raising 17 end by 50 hps at a time.

i think hps just need to be higher in general(because damage is so relatively high for horc/saurian and not so much for 20 str and under)
17 end should sit where 19 end does currently and each go up from there.

-just think of armor. armor lowers damage yay. then factor it at say 40 damage per stam it absorbs. ok. factor in half orc losing 40 damage vs a ling losing 40 damage. ling loses 25-30% of its damage half orc loses 15-20.(not saying this is bad, just currently everything favors strength and how OP it is)

-weapon damage is the same thing 25 str is getting more damage out of a weapon than a ling/gnome etc

i think the culprit for everything is STR being too effective on top of alot of oad additions, pp weapons etc. its a double edged sword. the hps and agi bonuses are needed to balance this because i wouldnt expect a str nerf.
-on paper nitehawk can see hp vs hp attack vs attack etc, but the fact is no-one has equipped a ling warrior to fight a horc etc its just mass str characters getting decked out making it even worse. i dont blame them, it isnt as effective. you are hoping player preference will outweigh results and it wont.

[Dan]

I dont like proposal #14 at all.

Saurian, drakes, hos already have limited max natural wis so they have a weakness to magic.

Why reduce it even more? It signs that MR formula should change then.

Are we back to rock , paper and scissor ?

Again, we have a 5 div system, rock , paper scissor its too simplistic to this game.

I agree that 25 str is too high, its op. I have hos, and i dont mind of saying it.

First thing to balance this game is -1 str hos.

[Terron]

paper, rock, scissors, lizard, Spock


its the exponential gain that has MR screwed. 20% bonus to goblins so they can fit in? elves with 0? clerics with mr penalties...? it looks awful. the problem lies spells should just be wisdom vs int. straight up more wis makes you get hit less, higher int makes you hit more often. identical to the agility theory. spell mitigation shouldnt be tied to wisdom at all(unless its a bonus for having over 20 wis). it should be added as racial bonuses (if your race has 5% mr it just receives 5% less damage from magic) and bonuses from armor . make armor have 2 stats AC and SR (i.e cloth adds 9 armor and 25 SR(spell resistance which offers mitigation identical to the way armor affects melee.)) melee characters can choose heavy armor which offers less SR or choose a lighter armor version which increases SR. im pretty sure ive posted this before..

agility has to be more powerful because it has to compete with 2 different statistics strength and endurance. people cant possibly believe a ling will be good with saurians and drakes running around. -1 agi +4 str+2 end...same reason humans dont beat horcs(-1 agi +4 str +2 end) or horc vs ling where you drop 5 agi and gain 7 str 4 end where the lings agi has to overcome 11 stats for the price of 5.

so until the game is heavily magic(magic/melee classes equally numerous), 20 wis warriors and anything similar will suck. 50 hps here -50 there and increasing gnome chanter damage isnt changing the problem.

[Dan]

Actually maybe something similar to classes dodge might work here.

I.E. gnomes and lings still have max of 21 agi and 23 agi, BUT when dodging they have +1 agi, similar to monks dodge bonus but for races. So similar to the small stat but kinda in formula I guess.

I.e. gnomes would have 21 agi when attacking but have the boost of 22 agi when dodging. A middle ground might be good cause 25 agi lings to me 'worries' me but a halver of what I talked about might be OK.

I like it.

That is what some of us suggested to make lings and gnomes get to the game.

Maybe +2 dodge agi pve and +1 dodge agi pvp?