Few concerns

User avatar
Hanibal
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:23 pm

Few concerns

Postby Hanibal » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:10 pm

First I'd like to start on a positive note, thumbs up to all the hard work from the coders/builders, awesome job with the updates, well some of them.

That brings me to this....

Why were slayers made even more useless? Cant pot/dodge or land a descent amount of hits to last in a battle.

Why cant you re-enter an area after dying? What if you aren't attached to a large guild and want to defend a Control Crystal but now you cant. (You have died 3 times and must wait 57.8 minutes before entering again!)

And the log off timer after death and the length of sickness is too much, it just made every character i <we> worked hard to lvl and gear useless.

This is suppose to be a pvp game, well I thought. Now its a numbers game with no chance for success for the little guy.

Please fix.

User avatar
NiteHawk
Site Admin
Posts: 3396
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Few concerns

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:31 pm

Hanibal wrote:First I'd like to start on a positive note, thumbs up to all the hard work from the coders/builders, awesome job with the updates, well some of them.

That brings me to this....

Why were slayers made even more useless? Cant pot/dodge or land a descent amount of hits to last in a battle.

Why cant you re-enter an area after dying? What if you aren't attached to a large guild and want to defend a Control Crystal but now you cant. (You have died 3 times and must wait 57.8 minutes before entering again!)

And the log off timer after death and the length of sickness is too much, it just made every character i <we> worked hard to lvl and gear useless.

This is suppose to be a pvp game, well I thought. Now its a numbers game with no chance for success for the little guy.

Please fix.


Because control crystals need to have a end. It is the only areas that have it and they are a means of ending the PVP rather then continuing. Three deaths is plenty enough. This is probably not needed anymore with the death timer now though. Not sure yet, we'll see what others say.

We don't want players swapping when they have high sickness. It just becomes a alt war, rather then a proper fight. Again, there has to be a means to an end of a fight, it shouldn't be based on how many alts you have. All games have an end to fighting, this one needs one too. The length is debatable but honestly I haven't seen much problem with the sickness at least. If you die several times in a row then you're going to have high sickness. Without this the little guy as you claim would be even more screwed simply by getting overrun by tons of people. Doesn't really change anything.

I think you're one of the only people that say slayers aren't decent :P. Everyone else claims they are overpowered. They literally get 4x damage for only 2x. Their hit rate isn't any different when backstabbing nor do they have a penalty. With the last change being able to pot while hiding was a pretty weird and kind of abused with double hiding.

Not sure why these changes means it's not a PVP game though. Again, there needs to be a end to a fight. PVP doesn't = fights that last when the person gets tired of being a zombie.

User avatar
Folder
Posts: 1201
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:04 am
Location: Texas

Re: Few concerns

Postby Folder » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:21 pm

Hanibal wrote:First I'd like to start on a positive note, thumbs up to all the hard work from the coders/builders, awesome job with the updates, well some of them.

That brings me to this....

Why were slayers made even more useless? Cant pot/dodge or land a descent amount of hits to last in a battle.

Why cant you re-enter an area after dying? What if you aren't attached to a large guild and want to defend a Control Crystal but now you cant. (You have died 3 times and must wait 57.8 minutes before entering again!)

And the log off timer after death and the length of sickness is too much, it just made every character i <we> worked hard to lvl and gear useless.

This is suppose to be a pvp game, well I thought. Now its a numbers game with no chance for success for the little guy.

Please fix.


My take.

I think slayers are still very very good. I don't really know what you mean when you say you can't pot/dodge/land hits here - they have no attack penalties, and no other class could vanish and pot without being attacked. They DO take 4% more magic damage but I don't think that is game breaking. Another point on attacking - you can round people with only 2 attacks. No other class can do that. I mean your average slayer has something like 15% chance -every round- to kill someone all by themselves.

The problem with slayers was initiative. They could, and largely still can, pick and choose fights. The no-pots while hidden is a direct nerf to that, but I think it's fair. We'll see how it plays out though.

The zombie thing, I dunno man. The thing is just 2 months ago my guild got daily hate pages because we would run back to fights. People claimed they couldn't win anything because we would just zombie back until we won (which I agree with and I think that was poor game design). The recent changes were a way to hopefully help that. I don't think it's really accurate to say this hurts the little guys - the harsh truth is if you were heavily outnumbered you were losing either way.

<3.
<Silhouette>

anthriel
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Few concerns

Postby anthriel » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:10 pm

My 2 cents: I have no comment on Assy issue yet as cos I haven't tried mine since changes. The PVP issue probably is because (as Hanibal said, and Folder agreed with) the game is largely a numbers game (much more so than Rok where individuals could somewhat compensate with logging 2 alts or spamming pots with no cooldown etc)... So basically if you have low numbers (ie in your circle of online friends or guild at a partciular time etc) there's prolly no way to win fights, it pretty much sux to level and there's almost no way to experience top tier OAD content.

AND imho the underlying game design problem is this: there is pretty much no limiter to the numbers "arms race" (eg capping guild numbers or having incentives for active players not to group together but rather branch out and compete against each other, thereby starting new guilds) .... And because everyone naturally wants/needs/likes to play with other active players (otherwise u could play a single player RPG), there is every incentive to join big clans or else to not be bothered playing/doing much of anything when no allies are online (cos the game isn't designed to let u accomplish much individually). It's unfortunately a self fulfilling prophecy. Ppl in an active clan see other active ppl more and log in more themselves, whereas ppl in an increasingly inactive clan see ppl less and log in less themselves.

I do think it's great that NH has tried to make it a more interactive game than Rok (eg by having no alts, party exp bonuses etc) but I think some degree of balance needs to be achieved between individual and group player needs, otherwise the "numbers game" may eventually kill the game and all non-event pvp altogether (eg when all the active players group together and all the semi actives get discouraged from seeing less and less of each other online and eventually stop playing themselves or join the majority to interact with active players). IMHO most Pvp and area capture related issues would fall underneath this unbrella issue of the game having an almost unlimited benefit for having larger numbers. Unless that is somehow addressed, I feel that all the cosmetic changes in the world aren't going to help grow/sustain pvp and game competitiveness long term. Peace all :)

Terron
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Few concerns

Postby Terron » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:24 am

i suggest a small change to the potions while hidden.

a faded mage just loses concealment when drinking.

currently a thief/slayer that is hidden has to pick up an item/talk/move/attack to drink a potion. it is kinda weird this way.
i think drinking a potion while hidden should just disable autosneak and reveal you. similar to fade.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

User avatar
JadeFalcon
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:29 am

Re: Few concerns

Postby JadeFalcon » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:04 am

I think we need to consider also "Clan alliances" as a way to increase the viability of small guilds.
Just have clans be able to declare war to each other, but also ally with each other. Get a /ac chat where only guild leaders can talk, for example.

Fact is, we want people to do stuff with, without necessarily wanting to be in the same clan as them, and this would help.

To solve the structural issue, the bottom line remains: The game needs more people.
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

Proud member, Halfling Appreciation Club

HAC Tip of the Week:
Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!

User avatar
Lateralus
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:21 pm

Re: Few concerns

Postby Lateralus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:48 pm

Terron wrote:i suggest a small change to the potions while hidden.

a faded mage just loses concealment when drinking.

currently a thief/slayer that is hidden has to pick up an item/talk/move/attack to drink a potion. it is kinda weird this way.
i think drinking a potion while hidden should just disable autosneak and reveal you. similar to fade.


Yea I agree with that. Should work the same as fade breaking.

anthriel
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Few concerns

Postby anthriel » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:51 pm

JadeFalcon wrote:I think we need to consider also "Clan alliances" as a way to increase the viability of small guilds.
Just have clans be able to declare war to each other, but also ally with each other. Get a /ac chat where only guild leaders can talk, for example.

Fact is, we want people to do stuff with, without necessarily wanting to be in the same clan as them, and this would help.

To solve the structural issue, the bottom line remains: The game needs more people.


Agree JF.

Unfortunately though, the structural issue is probably causing the game to increasingly have less people, not more. It's a vicious cycle. As you suggest, a guild alliance mechanism of some sort (if done well) could help. It would probably help it be kinda "game of thrones esque" where groups pledge allegiance to greater groups but can still be autonomous n choose to change allegiance etc. It may make for a more interesting, less predictable guild system experience. Tho in the end the small groups still have to be able to accomplish some stuff in game on their own, otherwise it might effectively just be trading one large guild chat for more administration of several allied guild-chats (though I suppose in and of itself the ally system could still be good anyway cos guild A and D could theoretically be neutral while B and C are at war, even though potentially A&B are allies and C&D are allies). Shrugs

Terron
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Few concerns

Postby Terron » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:23 pm

on another note:

i noticed today that my 20 wisdom gnome thief resists about 8% puca beams and other magical attacks like cultists.
now i played a similar character before the update (22wis gnome thief) and it resisted prolly 85-90/100. i realize 90% resists was laughably too high. but in the current, magical creatures just rip you to shreds making choosing mr worthless pve.

anyway, just askin whats up with this?


as far as the player aspect, there just isn't enough "gain" in the content to hold lots of players. all you have is pvp where people in shop equips are 95% as good as people in orange and purples. some class skills eradicate almost every inconsistency(especially in a slayers case). oad content is based on having numerous players active and the yield is a bunch of gear that only has realistic merit in 1v1 combat and mostly vs the same weaker classes. most of the games content is derived in large group combat in which death has little consequence, killing has no ranking.

the last thing is good luck keeping alot of players with set content times. set times wont matter so much when there's 100s of oads instead of a handful
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

anthriel
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Few concerns

Postby anthriel » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:18 pm

Terron wrote:as far as the player aspect, there just isn't enough "gain" in the content to hold lots of players. all you have is pvp where people in shop equips are 95% as good as people in orange and purples. some class skills eradicate almost every inconsistency(especially in a slayers case). oad content is based on having numerous players active and the yield is a bunch of gear that only has realistic merit in 1v1 combat and mostly vs the same weaker classes. most of the games content is derived in large group combat in which death has little consequence, killing has no ranking.

the last thing is good luck keeping alot of players with set content times. set times wont matter so much when there's 100s of oads instead of a handful


You do raise good points, especially concerning the OAD set content times etc. I do personally feel this is a bad idea cos it promotes more of the "same sh*t, different day" predictability feeling that eventually bores players. And a set-time OAD system is a really poor use of limited build resources (eg if say I'm a player who's Timezone may be good for Flame Sally but I never get to do Thanatos or Seta... That just means that I get bored running Sally for 50th time while theres all this other existing build content I never get to experience)

I've actually always wondered why NH seems to support the existing structured time system. Yes I know players like to be able to know when to gather to do stuff but there's ways of doing this that imho escapes the "same sh*t diff day" feeling. For example:

1. Randomise all OAD spawn times. Have a soothsayer mob(s) who you can do a quick random quest for (eg gather 5 randomized items, changes each reset) to tell you when the OAD(s) will spawn that day. This could lead to opportunities for ppl who are actually online and active when others aren't. It also means ppl can actually have a chance to experience all the build content available. Tho ultimately, while it makes better use of existing build, it's still not entirely fixing the problem once ppl have tried everything and new build is slower than demand.

2. Therefore even better than the above would be to add several totally randomised OAD bosses that appear daily somewhere in the world at a random time (which shouldn't be so hard cos it's like Crimson dragon, just on lower OAD scale). This an incentive for individual players to actually get active and be opportunistic/motivated. Eg without this I may be able log on at say 1-2pm server time but I ALREADY KNOW there's no OADs or key bosses on so it's likely the game will be rather quiet and so I don't bother to do much other than idle (or not even log on)... But with this system/addition I might think "maybe there will be an OAD boss spawning somewhere in the world right now, I should run around abit instead of tavern idling.... And wow here is one spawned in the backwater of the wastelands and I can capitalise on everyone else's inacitvity to kill it myself!". More of this would help ppl have incentive to be interested/active when there's no set-timed content available.

Peace all.


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest