Few concerns

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NiteHawk
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Re: Few concerns

Postby NiteHawk » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:44 am

P.S. for MR the rates are between 24% to 65% not including racial or class bonuses which are now seldom bar a handful (so for example ninja could potentially get 73% cause they gain a static 8%.). It's closer to how AGI works, but still a little more extreme (29% to 51% ish) and I don't see that as an issue, it's probably alot more closer than what it should be. Maybe the per LEVEL should be lowered, which is at 2.5% higher or lower atm if level is different, per level. But that is same as AGI too. The hit rate is higher if its a player attacking a NPC, which is again, same as AGI works now too. (it is not higher the other way around though!)

If theres still issues the main thing might be looking more at the actual damage of spells or the INT on some mobs, rather then adjusting the formula which probably more near where it should be. 65% isn't a bad rate when going up against another spell caster, and fights won't go on forever because of it. But the issue might not be in PVP, maybe only PVE due to stats or damage.

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Few concerns

Postby JadeFalcon » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:18 am

Stop discussing stats and address the original poster's comments, please.
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Hanibal
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Re: Few concerns

Postby Hanibal » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:31 pm

My take.

I think slayers are still very very good. I don't really know what you mean when you say you can't pot/dodge/land hits here - they have no attack penalties, and no other class could vanish and pot without being attacked. They DO take 4% more magic damage but I don't think that is game breaking. Another point on attacking - you can round people with only 2 attacks. No other class can do that. I mean your average slayer has something like 15% chance -every round- to kill someone all by themselves.



I have 3 slayers, Saurian, 22 str, Drake also with 22 str and a Horc with 24 str. I am yet to round anybody on any of them the wasn't already low on hps before I attacked.

Im going to say it isnt a gear isuue, I have 2 very good daggers on my one slayer and he still only averages around 420 dmg per bs and to land two in a row in succession its very rare. (this is without buffs of course)

I have rounded a lot of people on my zerker though but they were lower lvls so doesnt really count I guess...
------------------------------------------------------------
Krange - Ninja
Hanibal - Slayer
Hannibal - Zerker
Krang - Ninja
Zann - Guard
WarLock - Deathmage
Dexk - Cav

killa
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Re: Few concerns

Postby killa » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:48 pm

ya bs are super weak now. id not even really have cared much cept for daggers being weakened. hittin 500s with 400pp dagger is a mission for my horc now

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Re: Few concerns

Postby killa » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:50 pm

i believe most of the balancing was good for the game. still annoyed by it but then i remember it happened to everyone 8-) but i dont think the daggers needed to lose anything just my opinion

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NiteHawk
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Re: Few concerns

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:08 am

killa wrote:i believe most of the balancing was good for the game. still annoyed by it but then i remember it happened to everyone 8-) but i dont think the daggers needed to lose anything just my opinion


I mean basing it off saurians they lost around 30 damage due to the dagger change. The str change is around 2 damage per point less after 22 so if you have a 25 str slayer it's 6 damage lost, in BS it's 6x4 so another 24 ish. I get it's a hit but they still are doing the highest damage amongst everyone. You get around 1 or 2 damage back from the necklaces as well and having two embers will make your hits on div really high if you go that route.

The values with no div bonuses on a 25 str and a purple level 25 dagger with brill is:
Not DW:463-553
DW: 509-609

Already here the value is a fair amount compared to others. Yeah zerkers can achieve this too and potentially can get a little higher, but they are also way more random too. That involves at minimum 3 successful hits in PVP and with a HO its not a common feat.

Let's take the above, give it radiant, and give it a humming bonus too:
Not DW: 485-575
DW:534-633

Let's take the max, add +0.2 for the potential necklaces.
NOT DW:488-579
DW: 537-637

Let's add divinities, we'll only do 3% shards, which are more common now. So 3% with one dagger and 6% with two plus the 10% self bonus:
NOT DW:552-654
DW: 623-739

What about 5% shards, though this is probably the most rare you can get:
NOT DW: 562-666
DW: 645-765


I get having the highest possible isn't something easy to do, but I think on average you'll probably have somewhere in between 609 and 637 for a max stab DWing, and 680 to 730 on div. What do you guys think this was before the changes for HO's? :P

Daggers were literally Swords that could BS too, and it didn't make much sense either value wise, so if something is ever adjusted then it will be prob the modifier. I really don't see the change being that big of a hit. I understand about the nerf, but the potential was too high, and we gotta base it off that right now. It makes it VERY hard to add stronger daggers or quest daggers in the future when the high before was something over 800 damage.

Any sort of bonus with this class is powerful. I'm not sure why you claim they are super weak, they still are the leaders in damage.

P.S. a saurian with a humming radiant dagger, without divinity is 486-576 with only 22.2 str. so its that vs 537-637 25.2 str. Saurians didn't lose much though, probably the 30 damage around.

I also think peopel freak out when they see 500's instead of 600's, though got to remember its probably high 500s vs low 600's, etc.

Obviously this doesn't include armor, which can take somewhere up to 10% depending on the person you are fighting. Average is probably 5-7%. But EVERYONE gets effected by this. So that zerker also loses out on the damage, etc.

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NiteHawk
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Re: Few concerns

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:31 am

I was gonna test on Killua but then I realized you had two level 20 daggers equipped and are only level 23. I assume you have others but feeling you basing your damage off those two and yeah you're seriously lacking max damage.

You BACKSTAB a water dummy with your dagger of destruction for 554 points of damage!
You BACKSTAB a water dummy with your dagger of destruction for 506 points of damage!
You BACKSTAB a water dummy with your dagger of destruction for 598 points of damage!
You BACKSTAB a water dummy with your dagger of destruction for 554 points of damage!
You BACKSTAB a water dummy with your dagger of destruction for 598 points of damage!
You BACKSTAB a water dummy with your dagger of destruction for 598 points of damage!

That is your char with a 400pp items on killua at level 25. That is not DIV either.

With div and 3% shards:
You BACKSTAB a fire dummy with your dagger of destruction for 694 points of damage!

Take off about 6% and you'll get average damage in PVP. This doesn't include anything fancy either, no humming, no necklace, etc. Directly taken from your char Killua

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Few concerns

Postby JadeFalcon » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:43 am

NiteHawk wrote:I was gonna test on Killua but then I realized you had two level 20 daggers equipped and are only level 23. I assume you have others but feeling you basing your damage off those two and yeah you're seriously lacking max damage.


killua isn't killa
:)
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

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Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!

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NiteHawk
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Re: Few concerns

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:08 pm

JadeFalcon wrote:
NiteHawk wrote:I was gonna test on Killua but then I realized you had two level 20 daggers equipped and are only level 23. I assume you have others but feeling you basing your damage off those two and yeah you're seriously lacking max damage.


killua isn't killa
:)

Wooooooooops.

Well, thats a level 25 slayer with 24 str then, lol. Just saying that the damage wasn't bad at all. I am pretty sure he has 24 str on killa anyways so the examples should still apply.

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Folder
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Re: Few concerns

Postby Folder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:45 pm

JadeFalcon wrote:
NiteHawk wrote:I was gonna test on Killua but then I realized you had two level 20 daggers equipped and are only level 23. I assume you have others but feeling you basing your damage off those two and yeah you're seriously lacking max damage.


killua isn't killa
:)


lmao. test still works tho :D
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