Lets get this straight

killa
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby killa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:28 am

I msg NH earlier i am meaninful in donating 100 bux to advertising. its a start lets get it done. i dont know anything bout that kind of stuff :)

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daedroth
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby daedroth » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:57 am

Very generous of you KILLA :)
Someone buy that man a beer (and me too... what?)!

Ok, I like Dan's idea about transparency (the /spy one that is), and I want to expand on it.

How about this (all done through broadcast and a blanket rule):
Whenever something is summoned (that is not automated). IE A staff summoning an item/monster.
Whenever someone is warped.
Any use of powers?

How much information to share though (staffy name/location? the character the power is used on name?).

One problem might be when testing stuff or surprise/special events. Although NH would be informed of this anyway. This would not show up as a broadcast, but a log would be sent to NH?
The other problem will be admin... If people decide to question each time a staffy uses their power (how often does this happen anyway? eh a staffy use their powers that is)... poor NH is all I can say :D
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Folder
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby Folder » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:52 am

Staff can't make items. Summoned monsters can't drop items. Only top level staff can /spy, and Lat told you why he uses it.

I don't see why we would want a log full of warps and refreshes from events. Y'all paranoid.
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daedroth
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby daedroth » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:38 am

Folder wrote:Staff can't make items. Summoned monsters can't drop items. Only top level staff can /spy, and Lat told you why he uses it.

I don't see why we would want a log full of warps and refreshes from events. Y'all paranoid.


Well you would say that wouldn't you, hmm hmm ;)
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

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Folder
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby Folder » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:50 am

daedroth wrote:
Folder wrote:Staff can't make items. Summoned monsters can't drop items. Only top level staff can /spy, and Lat told you why he uses it.

I don't see why we would want a log full of warps and refreshes from events. Y'all paranoid.


Well you would say that wouldn't you, hmm hmm ;)


*glaring intensifies*
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Lateralus
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby Lateralus » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:23 am

killa wrote:I msg NH earlier i am meaninful in donating 100 bux to advertising. its a start lets get it done. i dont know anything bout that kind of stuff :)



The idea has been to do more advertising but we want the game to be in a good place feature wise and retention wise before we do so.

There is no point getting 100 new players here if the starter area isnt retaining those new players. We really need to take a deep look at are starting area and first few quests and get those in line before we spend money on advertising or it could all be for not. Once we have acceptable retention thats when we hit the gas on advertising.

After this crafting project I plan to devote myself to a revamp of the first few quests as well as linking along a story line.

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NiteHawk
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:01 pm

Dan wrote:That is what i am talking about.

We will never know.

Make the player get a notification when anyone who can /spy him.

Like "You are under the eyes of a semi-god" or something like that, but let people know what is going on.


I am the only one who can spawn items etc. If anyone uses the /spy ability I'd question them on why. /spy doesn't give much information
on where you are at, what you are wearing, etc. It's literally to check IP and other account related things, but nothing that could be used to stalk you or hunt you down in game. I mean, I don't mind adding the /spy notification though, isn't really a big deal IMO as no one really uses it or has it. It can't really be used as a tool to be corrupt though, a lot of things were removed out of it as a security thing.

///

I do however agree that corruption is unlikely as NH does work hard to stamp it out. But I also recognise that Dan's call for increased transparency is a good one for keeping things with a perception of being above board. For example, if NH authorised a certain player to create and test a guild-owned discord bot (which is an exception to the normal TOS) this should have been disclosed to the public for transparency/feedback purposes long before it eventually gets discovered/noticed by the playerbase and becomes a bigger issue and more fuel for the fire. (I admit to being very discouraged by how that whole incident played out).


Well as I said, in terms of Ry, I didn't give him access to use it as a guild bot for chat though, I told him to stop running it.. I'm not sure where you're getting that the bot was authorized to run as a guild chat bot/etc (on discord I also did state about this.). I gave him the right to try to break the encryption and some other things though. I was aware he was testing the client to try to break the encryption and I'm often fine with it as he relays me what he has done and I patch up stuff and solve it. Ry and I have worked together quite a lot with it going back and forth with stuff he breaks and things I fix. Most security fixes have now been patched because of his tests/breakdowns though.

///

Killa, I do appreciate you wanting to help the game but you do need to chillax a bit with the hyper posts too mate. You got to remember regardless of who he is, other players look see the post too,if we have people who are kinda rage posting it looks bad community wise, specially to new players who have not been in the game yet or are looking to get into it. Once we get a game to a better state though we'll see about advertising later on though.

///

Things like warping doesn't need to be seen by everyone as it's pointless. No game does this to the extreme. It's a little bit silly I think but I can understand some things if it makes the community at ease. I will say that it's not a common thing games even do. It's a bit odd as even though I state many don't have it X commands, and X commands can't really be used to abuse as they give out very little information, people still assume corruption.

And again, if anyone thinks corruption, by all means, please PM me on Discord and I will check it out as soon as I can. I will be glad to relay or even paste parts of the logs where needed if you think there a problem.

///

I also don't think it's fair what players are doing to staffers either though. We've losing people because of harassment on all sides and theres no replacements. I've gotten no real applications so there's that. No one wants the position as it's tough with the current community. I feel like I have to start coming down on certain players to prevent the game from being so toxic, and I don't really want that, but I don't know what to do at this point. Do we punish people who attack staffers for no real reason/no proof rather then come to myself with a PM with any issues that might come? (Again I am totally fine if theres some issues and you want me to check, I'll do it every time you need it.) Obviously they do it without pay, often not thanked. They're people too. I'm particularly sad that we lost two good event staffers, one quitting the game entirely.

anthriel
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby anthriel » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:41 pm

NiteHawk wrote:
///

I do however agree that corruption is unlikely as NH does work hard to stamp it out. But I also recognise that Dan's call for increased transparency is a good one for keeping things with a perception of being above board. For example, if NH authorised a certain player to create and test a guild-owned discord bot (which is an exception to the normal TOS) this should have been disclosed to the public for transparency/feedback purposes long before it eventually gets discovered/noticed by the playerbase and becomes a bigger issue and more fuel for the fire. (I admit to being very discouraged by how that whole incident played out).


Well as I said, in terms of Ry, I didn't give him access to use it as a guild bot for chat though, I told him to stop running it.. I'm not sure where you're getting that the bot was authorized to run as a guild chat bot/etc (on discord I also did state about this.). I gave him the right to try to break the encryption and some other things though. I was aware he was testing the client to try to break the encryption and I'm often fine with it as he relays me what he has done and I patch up stuff and solve it. Ry and I have worked together quite a lot with it going back and forth with stuff he breaks and things I fix. Most security fixes have now been patched because of his tests/breakdowns though.

///


I say this trying to be entirely as fair as I possibly can in making this comment. And I want to make it clear upfront that I appreciate all staff and the work they contribute to the game.

I think the perception of staff corruption in the wider community comes largely from 2 things. Firstly is factionalism. Secondly is lack of transparency.

Basically it unavoidable to notice that the majority of staffers come from 1 faction. And that faction also happens to be the largest and most successful faction (for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with cheating etc). But when u r someone who is not in that faction and you discover that some borderline TOS-breaking stuff has been occurring for weeks within that faction to their benefit, and not one of their staff members decided to report it or make the community aware that it's happening etc etc... It does look a lot like cheating (esp from the outside of that faction!). What follows is a public confrontation on discord, super-defensiveness from the faction with staffers basically claiming that anyone who dares question their behaviour is abusing them and more toxic factionalism continues until you step in to stop the bot. But where could this have been prevented/stopped? Well I think it could have been best stopped earlier and less damagingly if the faction with the staffers has been more transparent to report this borderline TOS breaking activity long beforehand and not just quietly enjoy its benefits for weeks. The fact that no repercussions other than turning off the bot occurred also makes ppl in the other faction(s) likely feel that there's a group of 'untouchable' players (many of whom are associated with staff because they are part of that faction) who can push TOS boundaries and not get anything more than a mild chiding for it. Apparently this kind of thing has had further precedents also, such as abusing some bug with the river shark etc back around time I first started playing etc.

Basically what I'm saying is that any perceptions of corruption/cheating etc being fostered in the community are NOT RESTRICTED ONLY TO WHAT A STAFFER DOES ON THEIR STAFF CHARACTER.... Because the game is so factional and one faction unfortunately represents >80% of staff, the actions of that faction's non-staff characters will inevitably also come under scrutiny and have potential to cause discouragement to the rest of the playerbase if their actions appear to be TOS breaking etc. All the staff character logging in the world is not going to entirely clear this up methinks.

Now weve been in discussion how to reduce factionalism in another thread (which I think would greatly help), but here I think the main thing is to recognise that there are troublemakers on both sides. Yes there are embittered staff abusers that probably need to be censured somehow. But there are also supe-defensive staff faction members who need to stop being super-defensive and just do the right thing more beforehand regarding transparency etc when they should know better to. If this happens then hopefully everyone can be more friendly to one another and enjoy playing the game. That's my 2 cents. Peace.

Terron
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby Terron » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:11 pm

the "corruption" stems from where the players came from lol. nightmist rok and rev all had corruption. this is a sad thread. if you didnt treat my staff with respect you wouldnt be here. ill take 5 apples over 15 rotten ones all day. atleast the next apple wouldnt be exposed to rot within the first day.
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zerg the red ants with more black ants

killa
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Re: Lets get this straight

Postby killa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:13 pm

I understand. 5 posts since september is a bit much! back to the cave 8-)


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