Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

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Styx
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Styx » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:00 am

I have noticed after the changes, priests aren't wanted as much

Terron
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Terron » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:57 am

if its like a 3v3 or 4v4 yea. priest is a bad choice. doesnt offer any other support other than healing, gets broke by 2 dpsers. in the instance of a smaller numbers fight its better to have a minstrel which offers power/ac buffs or a guard to nullify enemies advantage on a weak target. not much changed in this aspect really

however when the numbers arent low or even u start seeing huge teams of healers. like at dragons etc. guilds with huge upper-handed numbers have like 7 priests and guards and 3-4 dpsers. and its easier because your opponent has low numbers and you break their priest anyway. all while staying invincible.
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NiteHawk
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby NiteHawk » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:06 am

Terron wrote:if its like a 3v3 or 4v4 yea. priest is a bad choice. doesnt offer any other support other than healing, gets broke by 2 dpsers. in the instance of a smaller numbers fight its better to have a minstrel which offers power/ac buffs or a guard to nullify enemies advantage on a weak target. not much changed in this aspect really

however when the numbers arent low or even u start seeing huge teams of healers. like at dragons etc. guilds with huge upper-handed numbers have like 7 priests and guards and 3-4 dpsers. and its easier because your opponent has low numbers and you break their priest anyway. all while staying invincible.


I'm not sure increasing priests heals to the original would solve that though. It would probably still be the same over priest tactics anyways. I get the issue there, it's just a pain because if we simply just say 'reduced heals' on multiple guild healers then people will actually just make multiple guilds and bypass it. Look at what they do at the control crystals atm.

The only way I could see solving this partially would be to 'maybe' remove heal decay or lower it a good amount but make it so you can only heal your own party members. I have no clue if that would even be a good idea though. It would defo change things.

Terron
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Terron » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:03 am

i mean priest heals are pretty good atm. it puts a big emphasis on defensive gear and better potions. the game needed this imo.

just gotta take the good with the bad really. when you're fighting 5v13 u arent winning anyway so its kinda irrelevant that they bring 9 healers to be invincible to an oad or dragon. best i could say is make oads/dragons tougher but that will just make it all healers lol.

even fights are tactical and really fun atm.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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NiteHawk
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby NiteHawk » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:35 pm

Terron wrote:i mean priest heals are pretty good atm. it puts a big emphasis on defensive gear and better potions. the game needed this imo.

just gotta take the good with the bad really. when you're fighting 5v13 u arent winning anyway so its kinda irrelevant that they bring 9 healers to be invincible to an oad or dragon. best i could say is make oads/dragons tougher but that will just make it all healers lol.

even fights are tactical and really fun atm.


Yeah that's what I thought. I don't think it will change the gameplay either. It's also great to hear that bards and paladins actually have some different uses too when it comes to healing, something that 'should' be a thing. Not saying things can't be tweaked to anyone else here, but priests were a bit extreme before.

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby JadeFalcon » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:43 pm

Terron wrote:i used a 23 str saurian slayer and killed 138 people in 3 days. that shit is piss easy. after that wayner bought it some purple daggers...yeah rocked 80% of people i tried on with blues. the attack delay is shorter than the old rehide penalty its still easy to get 2 shots off. just cant insta Queue it like before so most people get a potion in or a heal in group. that just means rounding is rare because your target hps are 1150+ and u cant instantly pickoff every race under 20 endurance.

all thats changed is they eat a bit more damage(alot from magic) and dont hit 850 850 850 850 850 when buffed. they used to and still do shut down any healer. the bigger problem is theres just half healers everywhere in any group fights. classes like necro cavaliers and stuff do enough damage to break priests now, so a group of 5 has 3 healers in it. as if u didnt see it coming.

if they are so bad sell me a few slayers ill have some fun

@antharial nah man even cavs are breaking single priests. zerks do it even great equipped ninjas are. priests dont heal enough to beat 2 dps anymore so instead of making a better healer or a gnome u just get your buddies on all minstrels and guards and only need 2 dpsers

edit: also since priests heal around 800-880 a round now splitting damage to multiple people is breaking priests rather quick.
the biggest problem has always been armies of healers with 2-3 huge dpsers that just round people sooner or later with 0 risk. healers need a nerf when massed together like i said on the healing thread ages ago. instead we got heal decay which just screws the outnumbered. each same team healer on square should drop max heals at an increased rate. like 2 healers -5, 3 healers -12, 4 healers -20, etc


Well you dont play slayers, do you? I find it doubtfull that claim of "killing 138 people" in 3 days, unless its lvl 16s.
I continue my duels - keep being smashed quite neatly by most about every class, using much inferior equipment.

If modifying damage is out of the equation, then dodge must be modified - as is, the class is totally uncompetitive.
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Terron » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:01 pm

i used rodeo for ages. until recently and yes i murdered everything i could to prove a point. the class was dumb af. was alot of lowbies and group fights and not many duels. you could track someone or a group to a raider and just click 4 buttons and drop someone in a blink of an eye especially when u got a quick power first :P. go ask wayne about it lol i got him some nice hatemail.

however now that buffs are 1/4 as powerful on slayers and the reaction time lets all low endurance races get a pot in usually they dont really have direct 1 round power. unlike the mages that eat them. now its kind of the other way really. mage can just hit 4/4 in .5 seconds or 2 mages or hit 3 or 4 after a watcher explodes and round a slayer with no reaction time. slayers being significantly weaker has really put healers to the next level as well. u can put a slayer behind a guard vs a chanter behind a guard and the chanter still makes the slayer useless with searches whereas before the magic penalty the guard facing the slayer usually died sooner or later. mages are finding 20 int brigs/slayers 3x a round sometimes. its kinda like why bother as it appears most have said the same and noone plays slayer.

i dunno what to really say about hide to make everyone happy. myself i like to think about roles in combat and stuff. players seem to want a 10 int dpser to be a search machine, which is retarded in general. but as it sits there are 2 classes that have a major niche at searching. vs chanter searching and watcher you pretty much need a gnome to stay hidden half a round. as in i never stay hidden long enough to regenerate stamina, even hasted. after search u pretty much have to move away. and vs a stalker you cant hide at all unless they select dumb pets. idc what Int you have u dont hide from a 27 int bird with 3 attacks and 9 infravision.

pretty sure this skill needs a buff, especially now that people have logged their high int chanters to combat brigs and slayers dropstealing finally after me saying it for months on end.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

Dan
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Dan » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:10 pm

I think the thing about slayers is that they should kill you in one hit, or die.


Today they can backstab you, hide , than backstab again, what the logic in that? Or they can run, what's even worse.


If they backstab and the damage is not enough to kill, expect a payback, that why i think a successful bs should consume all stamina.

If they miss they can try again, but that makes them a sneaky class as they should be, waiting for the right time to kill his target.

So they really could have a buff in hide, should be hard to find, so in a group fight, they can look at ppl, then choose who to backstab.

If miss, hide and try again. If hit, all stamina gone.

Terron
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby Terron » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:09 am

i dunno if that would work currently. hits emptying the stamina pool would make slayers just use swords just to rehide. not a bad way to reduce the damage on the class, however slayers and brigs are awfully vulnerable as is. if you compare them to any other class, they take the highest chance of getting rounded or critically wrecked. if u factored that into group fights noone would ever use them. stam out and let several zerks chanters dms or ninjas try and round you, yeah nty.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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JadeFalcon
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Re: Slayer/Brig Hide Revamp - Initial feedback and suggestions

Postby JadeFalcon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:49 am

/Search should be simple

If you have a higher int than the one you are searching, you find him. If not, you dont. Lings with Int should be very hard to impossible to find, dumb saurians should be easy to find (unless being search out by other dumb saurians)
We can tinker the actual mechanic, but the principle is that.


I still say that to balance out the slayers, you should give them a defensive AGI bonus (i.e, make them harder to hit).
This will be useless against chanters, but its the job of WIS to make you strong against those - i dont complain about being fried by chanters, i knew what i was getting into to. I do think its silly if a chanter also fries an halfling.


A defensive AGI bonus will not alter hit rates or damage, but at least will make the class more competitive against other classes. As is, its not acceptable. I havent played for 3 weeks since my butt still hurts by being kicked by a lvl 24 monk with green equipment.
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