New Guild and Boss Systems.

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Hanibal
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Hanibal » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:40 am

Lateralus wrote:Sorry heavily against alts and having to redesign the game.

I understand numbers are a bit low but Alts do nothing for the game besides artificially inflate numbers.

When we go to tablets/fb (which should be our main goal) it will work against us. It creates an unfair advantage for them and is off putting for the new players we should be trying to entice.


How would the game have to be redesigned if people were able to log more then one crit at a time?

When someone new starts playing a game and see's a player base sub 100 they arent going to bother wasting their time, the only time the game hits any descent numbers (30+) is when there is a special event and its still people only being active when bosses spawn, sitting idle and watching youtube vids isnt being active.

If this game goes to an app based game or fb i feel the current player base will dwindle even more, sure you will get new players but with no one around from the old player base to show them the ropes, fb sucks and anything involving a tablet would need major game update like i dont know graphics, text muds are best left for people using a computer. If this game does update to either of those above platforms there should be an option to still play on your puter at home, like a seperate server.

What attracted most ppl to Ember was it was similar to another game we all played, being an app and really limiting peoples time to playing even more i dont think is going to help.
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Terron
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:57 pm

i agree and disagree with this.

on 1 hand i cant stand alts, on the other the game isnt designed for tablets/fb. have you even seen games that are designed for those platforms? they are simple, you log in when you want, you dont miss special "keys" or anything. currently there is no way id play ember on a tablet, i wouldnt sit there drooling on it tappin the screen as fast as i can for drops or 1v1 events. dont like typing on tablets either. not to mention how annoying things like blind will be, i feel that skill is over utilized and infatuated already.

people would hammer bad reviews of this game on facebook the first week they couldnt log on and missed seta keys for a week or anything else. you know its true. theres realistically no way this game will perform on those outlets w/o bosses being available all day all the time via instance or the suggestion i had above.

id love to have the players, but the game itself cant support them. youd have to either give everyone keys for logging in or make bosses available 24-7. So basically, 1 way or another the game is getting revamped. so using the excuse of changing the whole game to allow alts isnt really an issue, since the game will need 100s of changes for FB/App anyway. but again i prefer 1 character at a time.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
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Ardrahz
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Ardrahz » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:34 am

A lvl 25+ system would be awesome if you use a merit system close to what ffxi used for their max lvl plus system. And crafting best gear in game would benefot the current mwta.
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Lateralus
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Lateralus » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:52 am

@hanibal every single part of the game besides group oads is designed for one player. allow people to control more than 1 player and the difficulty of all monsters quests pvp interactions spawn rates drop rates etc needs to be adjusted.

From a build perspective alone it’s pretty much redoing the game. Well you say people already have the option to team with someone else but that 2 turns into 4 and so on. I’m not sure if you remember how that turned out in rok but inorder to have a somewhat challenging game for players we had to design the game for alts Then making it impossible to play solo.

Beyond that where does it stop 2 alts 3 alts unlimited?

You are thinking about yourself and no real “new” players. Any real new player that has to use 2-3 clients at once as soon as they start a game to survive/compete will never ever stay around.


Sorry I’m just very against alts it’s poor game design imo. If there is a problem with playing the game with a certain class then there needs to be a design adjustment. Not patch up by allowing Alts.



As for expanding to tablets I think it could be very easily done and unfortunately imo is the only way we will gain more players otherwise we will continue a gradual downward slope of active users. Yes 25+ and new classes and whatnot will help but imo we need new fresh blood and we could spend 100 hours a week marketing and spend $10000 and not get the amount of new users we could get from 1 hour of being on an App Store.

This is what I do for a living I know the market I know how this works.

Terron
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:38 am

app store would be a great revenue service. i just dont see those people stickin to it if 5-10 people hoard every key in the game. we lose players over it already. and the truth of it is; we are losing those players and they have 20 yr familiarity to this "type" of game. newer people will be back to dragonvale or whatever play at your own pace game, by the end of the month. if they last that long.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Lateralus
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Lateralus » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:18 am

Terron wrote:app store would be a great revenue service. i just dont see those people stickin to it if 5-10 people hoard every key in the game. we lose players over it already. and the truth of it is; we are losing those players and they have 20 yr familiarity to this "type" of game. newer people will be back to dragonvale or whatever play at your own pace game, by the end of the month. if they last that long.


That’s the thing when you average a few 100 downloads a day even if 90% of people don’t stick you are still gaining tons of people each day.

Consider those 100 people or so I speak of a day as a very conservative number. I have games that are much more simple than ember and offline that did 5-10 k downloads EACH day for the first week or so. I know muds are somewhat a dying breed but we would also be one of the first to the tablet as well so.

Our biggest hurdle will be as you said keeping enough bosses keys etc spawning Quick enough. Honestly it might be rare to get to run an oad in the future if things are not instanced. Can you imagine 200-400 people on the server fighting over keys resources etc. a very good problem to have. Yes builders would have some work todo but a good problem to have.

Terron
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:09 pm

yeah, it is the only future to obtain. just the game isnt going to be the same. most of the changes we need anyway, so its a win win.


always been interested in trying an offline version of a Mud aswell, although ive never seen one. turn based might work, but alts would be fun if it was just you.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Hanibal
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Hanibal » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:08 pm

Lateralus wrote:@hanibal every single part of the game besides group oads is designed for one player. allow people to control more than 1 player and the difficulty of all monsters quests pvp interactions spawn rates drop rates etc needs to be adjusted.

From a build perspective alone it’s pretty much redoing the game. Well you say people already have the option to team with someone else but that 2 turns into 4 and so on. I’m not sure if you remember how that turned out in rok but inorder to have a somewhat challenging game for players we had to design the game for alts Then making it impossible to play solo.

Beyond that where does it stop 2 alts 3 alts unlimited?

You are thinking about yourself and no real “new” players. Any real new player that has to use 2-3 clients at once as soon as they start a game to survive/compete will never ever stay around.


Sorry I’m just very against alts it’s poor game design imo. If there is a problem with playing the game with a certain class then there needs to be a design adjustment. Not patch up by allowing Alts.



As for expanding to tablets I think it could be very easily done and unfortunately imo is the only way we will gain more players otherwise we will continue a gradual downward slope of active users. Yes 25+ and new classes and whatnot will help but imo we need new fresh blood and we could spend 100 hours a week marketing and spend $10000 and not get the amount of new users we could get from 1 hour of being on an App Store.

This is what I do for a living I know the market I know how this works.


Don't most people who can party to lvl and do quests have more the one person in the party now anyway? Whats the difference with partying with your own alts?

I'm not thinking about myself, rarely do. I'm looking at it from a players view, not a builder, there are very few muds that do well where you can log only one character, I know because i have played alot of them, shit ive played games with graphics with unlimited character logins.

Do you know how unappealing lvling solo knowing nothing about a game is? Especially when you may only have a few hours an evening after work, the way games are evolving today its about how much you can get done in those few hours with the most enjoyment, not being on at X time of the day to run a key then being on again at Y time to do a boss.

Sure if your in a large guild who do keys and bosses everyday this is alright, you may still get something for helping when you can but for those who are sick of the drama and just want to do stuff whenever they end up quitting, im not saying raising the alt limit is goign to fix any of this but it might bring some of the ppl back who have left for this reason.
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anthriel
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby anthriel » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:38 pm

While I think the single character vs alts discussion is a good one, I think it’s best to keep it as a seperate discussion regarding core game dynamics. Same with all this tablet/app stuff (Terron has a point that there would need to be other major overhauls to make it playable under these platforms that exceed just keeping it to “no alts”). The key to fixing the game as it is now (ie single char at a time) is changing the guild system and loot system with that in mind. There was enough interest in the game without alts (500+ forum Accts etc)... but we failed to retain that interest (and drove ppl away) mainly cos of the poor guild system and loot system issues mentioned previously by many here and elsewhere. Let’s keep the focus on that topic and discuss the alts issue elsewhere methinks. Peace.

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Lateralus
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Lateralus » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:34 am

anthriel wrote:While I think the single character vs alts discussion is a good one, I think it’s best to keep it as a seperate discussion regarding core game dynamics. Same with all this tablet/app stuff (Terron has a point that there would need to be other major overhauls to make it playable under these platforms that exceed just keeping it to “no alts”). The key to fixing the game as it is now (ie single char at a time) is changing the guild system and loot system with that in mind. There was enough interest in the game without alts (500+ forum Accts etc)... but we failed to retain that interest (and drove ppl away) mainly cos of the poor guild system and loot system issues mentioned previously by many here and elsewhere. Let’s keep the focus on that topic and discuss the alts issue elsewhere methinks. Peace.



You are very right we have a retention problem for sure.

I think everyone can agree on that.

I dont think more content areas/oads is the answer either. While more oads and leveling spaces are nice it does it also works against us. less interaction because everyone is spread out. less competition at oads because there are more to do etc. also oads while nice you need level 25ers and in many cases a big guild (atleast 4-5 people to run with). you also have to get keys etc so it only serves certain time zones.

We need something that appeals to everyone imo and thats why im pushing a new class / 25+. I believe a new class really appeals to everyone. You dont need to be level 25, or have a big guild, or on at a certain time to fight over keys. This is something everyone can enjoy and it should snowball activity (more on leveling more play pk etc). I believe its something that would bring back old players as well as attract new players. These new players that do join will see other players their level leveling so retention of those should go up as well. It also has an indirect active effect that if we do the new class correct people will also need to level up counter classes etc. We also have a plan to make each div important for the class (so replay-ability will be high). While it wont last forever like 25+ it should give players something to do for a good while (hopefully a holdover until we can get 25+/crafting/tablet build in).


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