Item progression at 25

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Folder
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby Folder » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:32 pm

Eh, adding suffixes and prefixes and sockets/etc is fine and dandy but it doesn't fix the underlying issue imo. We can't be so worried about feelz that we don't work to fix a system that is not working well.

Part of my whole reasoning goes right along with what you're saying - it's a poor system where you can farm blues/greens that are equivalent to top tier oads that take months of boss runs. That makes zero sense and is a hindrance to continue progression when bosses are not even required. Why would I bother getting 6 people together and slogging through keys/bosses when I can farm something solo? Sorry but that's how I see this.

Also many other games have complete gear resets on a regular basis. I'm not even talking about that here but I don't think we should look at potential fixes as a bad thing simply because it changes what people have done in the past.

I want to play the game more, I want to be able to progress at 25. I want top tier oads to MEAN SOMETHING. As it is you can derp around in your super greens and blues and be just as good as someone who took forever farming that purp. It's goofy D:

re: green and blue being same AD that sounds like an oversight. The blue should be better.
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Lateralus
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby Lateralus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:20 pm

Folder wrote:Eh, adding suffixes and prefixes and sockets/etc is fine and dandy but it doesn't fix the underlying issue imo. We can't be so worried about feelz that we don't work to fix a system that is not working well.

Part of my whole reasoning goes right along with what you're saying - it's a poor system where you can farm blues/greens that are equivalent to top tier oads that take months of boss runs. That makes zero sense and is a hindrance to continue progression when bosses are not even required. Why would I bother getting 6 people together and slogging through keys/bosses when I can farm something solo? Sorry but that's how I see this.

Also many other games have complete gear resets on a regular basis. I'm not even talking about that here but I don't think we should look at potential fixes as a bad thing simply because it changes what people have done in the past.

I want to play the game more, I want to be able to progress at 25. I want top tier oads to MEAN SOMETHING. As it is you can derp around in your super greens and blues and be just as good as someone who took forever farming that purp. It's goofy D:

re: green and blue being same AD that sounds like an oversight. The blue should be better.


Yea we are rewriting the system and Id say its about 90% done. Its not set in stone but odds are we will most likely be doubling ac (which means we have a bit more room without having .5acs and spreading out green>blue>purple so there isnt overlap with humming). We will also be spreading out weapons to +1min/+1max (but keeping damage pretty much the same at tops).

The above is pretty much done we are just working out finer details that the change above will affect.

prefix and suffix will most likely fall under enchanting. As for items having special effects hawk already said there will be more of those to come now that we have a good amount of purples out. Spreading out the ac values like we are doing now will allow us to do that even more so.

anthriel
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby anthriel » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:11 pm

Folder wrote:Eh, adding suffixes and prefixes and sockets/etc is fine and dandy but it doesn't fix the underlying issue imo. We can't be so worried about feelz that we don't work to fix a system that is not working well.

Part of my whole reasoning goes right along with what you're saying - it's a poor system where you can farm blues/greens that are equivalent to top tier oads that take months of boss runs. That makes zero sense and is a hindrance to continue progression when bosses are not even required. Why would I bother getting 6 people together and slogging through keys/bosses when I can farm something solo? Sorry but that's how I see this.

Also many other games have complete gear resets on a regular basis. I'm not even talking about that here but I don't think we should look at potential fixes as a bad thing simply because it changes what people have done in the past.

I want to play the game more, I want to be able to progress at 25. I want top tier oads to MEAN SOMETHING. As it is you can derp around in your super greens and blues and be just as good as someone who took forever farming that purp. It's goofy D:

re: green and blue being same AD that sounds like an oversight. The blue should be better.


I think those who put effort into farming perfect humming items have also expended a lot of time/energy (perhaps even more than running bosses in n many cases) and such player investment should not be discounted lightly (less there be disgruntled players). I'm all for fixing systems. Half of my posts are radical suggestions to do just that. But i don't want to see new or old players burned by this change and lose more of the player base either.

Lately I've seen a few new players come through who are hungry to farm stuff and do things. But they are rarely online at times when OAD bosses can be run or when there are 6 party members to be had... Or even when events are run. Farming humming items off mini bosses is their only real way/means of progression as largely individual or small party players. If you take the value of their hard work away from them, then i fear the game will even more be in favor of those who play at peak OAD/event times with large player numbers and preferably in large/powerful guilds. This in my opinion would be bad for overall playerbase retention and attraction of new players. I've observed that several old ROK players come to the game and hope to be able to progress like they did in ROK (ie as hard working individuals/small parties playing in off peak hours) but find discouragement that most of the game progression content already caters for peak hours and large parties/numbers which they can't easily access.

You say that getting 6ppl together n slogging out keys etc is tough.... I agree! And I think this is what needs to be changed somewhat... And rather than making the compensation for doing a 6man boss better (which only some can access), I think that finding a less burdensome and more accessible way of running any bosses (eg less players required, more randomisation in times etc) would be much better for overall playerbase competition etc and lead to more retention of interest.

Anyhow it sounds like Lat's already almost finished designing whatever he wants to implement anyway so I guess this discussion is possibly pointless to continue. But hopefully I've given some things for NH and staff to consider in any case. Peace.


Edit - basically I'm not against fixing this system but it seems to me that the proposed fix would only work if boss OADs and events etc (ie the primary content for top tier progression) was more accessible to all in some way. Otherwise changing the balance between say purples (boss drops) and humming blues (which could be
farmed from MBs at off peak hours and with small parties) is likely to further advantage the portion of the playerbase that can access those things and further alienate/discourage those who can't (which I hope doesn't lead to more loss of players).

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Lateralus
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby Lateralus » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:21 am

Yes we are figuring out a nice balance between making higher tier oads useful and keeping humming useful.

I’m sure you agree a +2 humming level 20 light helm should not be just as good as the best level 25 purple light helm right? Well that’s what we are trying to avoid. At the same time we want humming to be worth the gathering as well. A perfect humming will still be better than a reg blue in most cases it just won’t be better than a purple like it is now.

As for players being able to farm and solo stuff. That’s my main priority for building atm. Will introduce a few things soonish like this week and also when crafting hits you’ll have alternatives all the way up to purples that players can solo grind just keep in mind it will be a grind!

Rafael
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby Rafael » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:51 am

Lat, a lvl 20 perfect helm is not easy to farm. Maybe nerf it making hum obsolete wont be nice. If ppl already have an nice helm why nerf it ? Make everyone happy, replace the helm for a lvl 25 best helm, because its the same now. No one gets equips that was so hard to get merfed.

The point os: someone have a 5 ac lvl 20 helmet replace It for a crown of tormented, só ppl dont waste all the work they had to get the 05 Ac helm...

Lorelle
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby Lorelle » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:48 pm

I am one of those off peak players, being in New Zealand the only time I can run any main oads is if it’s my day off once a week or after reset somehow we have enough for cavs, and by then it’s after midnight, I have played for a little while and have 0 crown of torments I have a plus 2 blue hat and a plus 1 blue hat which I spent a lot of time to get. In reality it’s unlikely I’ll ever get a crown so this sort of “progress” will make me rage quit. It’s not fair to only cater for one side of the world

Terron
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby Terron » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:22 am

@lorelle i agree with that lol. every oad should be random, every event scripted/ran without staff and also random.

i dont think farmed items should be equal to oads tho. not to mention -5 levels. i think oads should remain better. crafting should be introduced to make oad equivalent purple items. Prestige should remain top otherwise eventing is pointless.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

Lorelle
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby Lorelle » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:52 am

My problem is PP is impossible to get, I have 23 after a year or so of playing 5 of which from Easter eggs.
I have to rely on the generosity of clannies to earn standard gear, crimson gear pp gear etc I will never own, make all oads random will help, worst case scenario if there’s 3 empire 3 sil on we can party up and make it happen

anthriel
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby anthriel » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:53 am

I totally agree with Lorelle. If u live in peak timezone u get all sorts of PP opportunities. Hell, nowadays they even have "losers moshes" for ppl who don't win the main event to get a second bite at the cherry! Meanwhile offpeak players get nothing. In fact OADs like archfiend which used to be run straight after reset keys even get moved to peak times etc.

Doing something for offpeak players or at least equalising the event/OAD distribution by randomisation of times would go a long way to making such re-balancing shifts much more palatable.

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NiteHawk
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Re: Item progression at 25

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:00 am

We'll be working on smaller OADs as we can/etc to get some OADs. Alot of OADs are spread out though and some can be adjusted. So for that regard we're working on it, it's just hard with the lack of builders. For event running I would of loved to but our early EU event staffers went inactive or quit. Aftershock was the last one and he quit the game entirely due to people being rough. I'm still looking for someone in that TZ though who understands the game fine/hasn't had any recent issues. So yeah, I get that, but it's not that we aren't doing it cause we don't want too, it's mostly due to lack of people who are even around during that time.

But the different between green to purple for heavy armor its 1% more active absorb, for others it's generally 0.5%. I'm not trying to sound terrible here but that doesn't make anything appealing beyond green and makes OAD running generally worthless. Even the new changes aren't 'that' extreme of a change because we can only do so much with armor values, but it will at least make it look a little better.

I don't think there's a major flux of purples either. Purples are generally rare or require PP. The general lot of what people will have are blue gear.


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