Magic

Terron
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Magic

Postby Terron » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:22 pm

nah just one melee needed pow wiggles* pow

its the rng man. you can load up a chanter and hit an oad in group and start blasting 95% against 21 wisdom characters or u can run into a raider and fail 8/8 on a drake berserker with rez sickness. problem i see(as im in dozens of conflicts a day) the rng. why u ask? because theres insanely long chains of hits/misses/dodges whatever u want to call it. and these happen ALOT.

i entered 5 events last week. 3 on melee characters and not one fight did i land more than 3 hits.

-monday mosh entered on minstrel, 22 agi. after beating enemy cleric out of mana my slayer teammate chased the cleric around i stayed to fight a saurian ninja 1v1. 262 mana left on bar. final result is i hit 3x totaling 188 damage. he hit me 1-2x a round (0 rhs) for a total of over 4000 damage worth of heals and hps before i died somehow never hitting for 12 minutes lol. result rng failure

-jr koth 21 agi monk vs ling druid was just a miss fest on both sides. i ended up dieing with only 3/44 stam hitting. result rng failure.

-regular koth enter on my chanter went up against 3 different casters and straight up hit 80%+ on all of them. result rng failure.

-jr fight club 22 agi ranger with pet 20.8% protect. vs ling druid. hit 3/27 and nearly won pet hit 7/8. may have pulled it off if pet protected me even once. result double rng failure.

-normal fight club - took chanter nothing seemed amiss, i got 2nd with decent random fights, lost to druid champ. result rng success.


this is why i cba to even log on a melee character
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

User avatar
Folder
Posts: 1275
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:04 am
Location: Texas

Re: Magic

Postby Folder » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:57 pm

I think we differ here because I don't think that's really failure, it is what it is and the system does need RNG. It would be pretty silly if every single round was programmed that you would hit 1 or 2 times without fail.

I would argue that gear should be far more effective in fights than it is now, because frankly RNG outweighs any and all gear (even tho we ban "good" gear from events? lol). To me this is the bigger issue. RNG should be a thing but working towards better gear should help counter this, give people real goals.
<Silhouette>

Terron
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Magic

Postby Terron » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:25 pm

i dont mind missing some. it really isnt about that. its the fact that u miss so often your hit rate is 8-12% over a period of 100s of attacks. if this happenned once or twice a week then sure. these issues alone make me just use my chanter and not care about melee really, except a slayer. its getting boring tbh. now granted im sure theres times u go hit someone 10/12 in 3 rounds and u "forget". really doesnt matter that i think its retarded. not up to me in the slightest. i got gobbled up with a 10% hit rate(1/10) in jr koth today aswell. o well, guess theres a few melee characters to delete/sell whatever.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

Terron
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Magic

Postby Terron » Thu May 24, 2018 12:41 pm

wheres those big bad mages at? im pretty sure we all know this answer
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

anthriel
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Magic

Postby anthriel » Thu May 24, 2018 9:54 pm

Doesnt the issue lie with the base hitrate differential rather than RNG?

Eg melee has base pvp hitrate of 40% of which Agi differential can modify it to be within 30-50%. Magic has base hitrate of 75% (against 10wis) which MR/wis can reduce to around 30% (at very best, which most won't have). On average most mages should hit probably 50-60% on characters they see (assuming most chars have 15-16wis average.... which is probably overstated already)

Therefore magic would hit overall more anyway cos of its higher base hitrate and character build trends in the population (and the fact that the Agi differential on melee isn't as big a modifier as MR is on Magic). If base melee pvp hitrate was say 50% then you would see your melee characters have more certainty to hit without affecting the RNG part (which folder rightly said should exist)

Shrug

User avatar
JadeFalcon
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:29 am

Re: Magic

Postby JadeFalcon » Fri May 25, 2018 3:56 am

I think piddy means, where are very dangerous DM's?
Don't take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

Proud member, Halfling Appreciation Club

HAC Tip of the Week:
Roast Halfling leg with rosemary, garlic and white wine. Ideal for that family dinner!

Terron
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Magic

Postby Terron » Fri May 25, 2018 4:30 pm

im pretty sure most characters have 18+ wisdom or sit behind a guard with 16+ with mr bonus or have enough hps it takes mages 3 rounds to kill them (without potions).


what we have is an army of clerics healing a guard or minstrel while a protected buffed half orc/saurian slayer kills entire teams. congratulations we have RoK 2.0. except in this version the guards actually dodge.

@tyrargo pretty sure those DMs decided trying to keep debuffs on piests and guards wasnt worth it. and that leech hitting 125-140 isnt worth it. even a FF'd slayer can do that lol. for me it was having 106 armor a 25 dodge agi and still dying in 14 seconds lol.

now granted your mage can also be guarded, but why guard 650 max damage character over a zerk or slayer that can do 12-1600. idc how steady the mages hit 10 wisdom, just not worth it. hence noone uses em for anything anymore. they used to have 1v1 potential but seem to have been mostly eradicated by ninjas mr boost lol.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

User avatar
Kruell
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 10:35 pm

Re: Magic

Postby Kruell » Fri May 25, 2018 10:11 pm

I was looking at the spells for another game I did a while ago and I found some options that might work for Ember to make DMs and Chanters feared. One of the DM style classes had a "Hellfire" ability that cost 400 mana and half life but did 800 hp damage, always hit. "Aether Flow" was a 100 mana attack that did 200~400 damage, otherwise normal unaffect. I've been gone for a year and a half but before the reset DMs were the class all others were based against. Have things changed so much in that time that DMs and Chanters really aren't a factor? Are priests so important that they have become the must have class? Are slayers breaking the game? The problems may be different than what you feel is obvious.

Do like what we did for RoKWorld, get a bunch of different race/class combos and actually record the data from your fights. Someone compile the data and figure out the real stats. Of course there is going to be some "luck" factor involved as well as equipment differences to throw the values off but people can figure out the real issues without emotions or favorite class feelings getting in the way.
If you look like prey you will be eaten

Terron
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Magic

Postby Terron » Fri May 25, 2018 10:50 pm

they are pretty much no factor in group yes. 1v1 is slightly different, although all 1v1 events are flooded with high mr builds/races that have just as much dps as saurians and drakes. its pretty much how it rolls atm, casters do negligible damage on high mr and other casters, including almost all support classes and priests.

i would say dms debuffs would be mainstream if they actually lasted on classes that need debuffed. its pretty rough trying to slap an elf druid or any priest with blind or slow. then its gone in 3 rounds. took u 3 rounds to even land it lol.

chanter is high dps if opponents leave 10 wisdom drakes/saurians un protected and have insufficient heals. this is normally not the case as groups are approaching 3 and 4 healer mark in each party.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"


Return to “Core”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests