Armor Buffs after update

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Lateralus
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Armor Buffs after update

Postby Lateralus » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:29 pm

As many of you know when the update hits armor is going to be doubled and the gap between green blue and purple is going to be widened at level 25. There will also be a much larger gap between level 20 equipment and level 25 equipment. This effort was done to improve / lengthen progression. I am sure as many of you agree a level 20 humming item should not outclass a level 25 blue item or better correct? In the past this was semi OK because we had quite a few gaps in equipment however the update is adding 4 more oad/boss areas so we are cover quite a bit.

With all the said it has not been revealed what these stats will be so people have held off trading for the most part which isnt good for the game honestly we expected the update to hit shortly after we announced all this so we didn't really need to put exact stats out but since its taken a bit longer than it should have we have decided to post these so players can move on.

NOTE: HUMMING IS NO LONGER 1,2,3 but instead 2,4,6

Body Armors
Heavy Armor:
White/Store: 102
Green: 107
Blue: 112
Purple: 117

Light Helm
White/Store:5
Green: 8
Blue: 11
Purple: 14


To give you an idea of where level 20 stuff sits...
Heavy Armor Level 20
White/store: 86
Green: 94
Blue: 98
Purple: 102




HERE IS A LINK TO ALL CURRENT ARMOR VALUES AND HOW THEY WILL PLAY OUT
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing



Feel free to ask any questions you might have.



Also side note disenchanting will NOT be in this update it will come shortly after however even when it is in it will not add humming to items. the items you get from disenchanting will be used for the suffix prefix system as well as general crafting which will be soon coming after update priority #1.

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Kruell
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Kruell » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:48 pm

Are there going to be quest reward armors that are "fillers" for between level jumps on armor. For an example, will there be a quest by which a level 23 character can gain a 100ac heavy armor? The main reason I ask is a few of my lvl 23+ characters can fight off or kill 25ers now. 2 or 3 levelers in a party can pretty much end a solo PKer right now. Once the armor jump between 20 and 25 gear grows to a large degree, it would seem the chances of doing such things will be greatly reduced. I actually enjoy turning the tables on people when I can and making 25ers immune to levelers fighting back seems a bad idea. One level should not make a character overwhelming but (average green heavy)120 vs 150 armor might be too large of an obstacle to overcome.
If you look like prey you will be eaten

Rafael
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Rafael » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:50 pm

I think that since everything is changing, everyone will need some unsb scrolls, would you guys consider to let it cheaper on a few days? So ppl can move his equips?

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NiteHawk
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:46 pm

I think some things aren't explained fully so let's throw it here.

-Humming values are doubled for armor, so 2/4/6. Though shield/helmets have 2/3/4 now. Any humming value you have will be adjusted to the current values (so your 3 will become 6, etc)
-Enchantments are not, though there are exceptions to this:
--Dull/Soft/Bright/Brill are for example give 2/4/6/8 armor. Radiant gives 12. For Helmets it's 1/2/3/4 and then 6 with radiant. We wanted radiant to still be separate a little from brills.
-Armor will be slightly better then it is with the double'd values at high end. Lower end classes will get a higher boost due to how it works though.

For example, current heavy armor at level 25 with purples brills is I believe is 98 ac.. Now max armor is 209 with heavy armor/shield/helm/boots/glove.

So lets take some values in more details.
Old values - Absorb is 0.5 per AC point not including shield, and deflect is 0.9 per shield ac point.
Heavy Purple Armor Level 25 is 98 ac.. 81 absorb and 17 deflect. 40.5% chance to absorb and 15.3% chance to deflect.
Heavy Blue Armor Level 25 was 94 ac.. 78 absorb and 16 deflect. 39% chance to absorb and 14.4% chance to deflect.
Heavy Green Armor Level 25 was 90 ac.. 75 absorb and 15 deflect. 37.5% chance to absorb and 13.5% chance to deflect.
Heavy Blue Armor Level 20 was around 86 ac.. 72 absorb and 14 deflect.. 36% chance to absorb and 12.6% chance to deflect.

And new values - Absorb is 0.25 per AC point not including shield, and deflect is 0.5 per shield ac point. We went better on shield here.
Heavy Purple Armor Level 25 user is 211...So 177 absorb and 34 deflect. So 44.25% chance to absorb and 17% chance to deflect.
Heavy Blue Armor Level 25 user is 191. So 161 absorb and 30 deflect. This means you get 40.25% absorb and 15% deflect.
Heavy Green Armor Level 25 user is 173. So 147 absorb and 26 deflect. This means you get 36.75% absorb and 13% deflect.
Heavy Blue Armor Level 20 - You are looking at 153 armor. 133 to armor, 20 to shield. 33.25% deflect and 10% deflect.

----

Yes your green armor is less impacting, but because the base starts off higher, your green armor doesn't get as hit as you probably think it does. You don't lose much if you're just running around with green armor, and the 'goal' for people would be to get shiny purple stuff which is alot harder than green. I don't feel like greens which can be farmed are = to purples, which probably drop once a week per mob if they are run, and then humming purples would be even more rare.

You do lose a little at lower levels, but we're trying to also prevent lower level items from being better then level 25 blues/purples for the most case. There may still be some adjustments if we eventually don't agree with this. I do feel like at level 25 though the soul purpose at this point is TO GET BETTER GEAR. Most games have this idea as well, where you don't get the 'greatest' gear until you're level capped, then to cure 'what can I do now at max level', they release rather high end gear.

----

I get some people will be upset over their helmets but please understand that a lot of the older AC values to me didn't make much sense. The only reason a level 20 helmet was = to a level 25 helmet was purely because we didn't have the digits to go higher. There was no reason to do certain items as they weren't worth the time or effort as many have said. I do apologize for the changes, but I feel like this is a good way forward.

We're also working on more smaller OADs as well to help with smaller guilds or when you can't get enough people.. This will help you guys get some decent blue gear without requiring so many online. The goal has typically been: 25'er Green = fairly easy, 25er Blue = Regular OAD runs, 25 Purple = The rare stuff in OAD runs. Most people are aimed to be around blue level with some mixes of purple with time as they get dropped or they purchase them with PP.

I also want to note though it says STORE, we don't sell level 25 gear, its just a filler or for easy quests etc.

Raf it's a possibility for certain gear. I would probably instead remove the SB name on helmets and some other things that got more effected by this to allow them to use them on another character or sell it. It will be like you never equipped it though once you reequip it, it will bind again (and don't worry it won't drop.)

Terron
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Terron » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:14 pm

aside from void cloak shark fin and onyx plate i dont even recall armors being farmed. onyx plate wasnt really farmed either, it was like well this ones equal to devils plate so ill keep it. hakama is free, people farmed shark 300x for a piddly ac or 2.

weapons were the travesty items to begin with. humming dreadfang = devils horn. hightone/perfect incinerating knife slightly more random than a 400pp dagger with a 1/6(perfect) or 1/7 (hightone)chance to hit harder than the 400pp dagger. like what!!

however i think the armor change was needed, but i think hum needs to be 3x instead of 2x. farming is dead w/o it. especially when blue armors drop at 100% rates. farming made it so people atleast played.
Last edited by Terron on Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

Rafael
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Rafael » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:19 pm

about the helmets:

why not replace the 5AC lvl 20 helmet for a crown of torment? ppl would be happy and dont get nerf, also the game wouldnt lose anything. I think that would be nice and ppl would be happy, give ppl a gift, everyone can understand but keep a nice helmet would be nice.

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Kruell
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Kruell » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:45 pm

Nearly any change to the way helmets and shields are done at the moment is going to be positive. The system seems to be a logical progression and it takes into account scale while allowing for flexibility. Those who are upset about helms or shield changes shouldn't be concerned because something had to be done and this change (as I understand it) is probably the best option. Someone is always going to feel personally aggrieved but changes had to be made. Still curious about the jump between level 20-24 gear and lvl 25 gear. I hope someone has thought how this will affect fighting back against PK attempts.

Terron wrote: weapons were the travesty items to begin with. humming dreadfang = devils horn. hightone/perfect incinerating knife slightly more random than a 400pp dagger with a 5/6(perfect) or 6/7 (hightone)chance to hit harder than the 400pp dagger. like what!!


I hope once Nitehawk is satisfied with armor he will take a look at weapons. There are a few things to look at with regards to weapons and the spread that can be addressed by build. I do agree though that humming weapons complicate scaling and balance though. I'm just not sure upping the hum value is the best way to fix it because it would throw lower level weapons much stronger than regular counterparts in a few instances. Do we want perfect shadows swords to be challenging a ruby axe or even taking it up to topping a void blade?
If you look like prey you will be eaten

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NiteHawk
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:35 am

Right now a +6 hum would be equal to the next level up instead of higher. I’m not sure if we think that it a perfect could be +1 so a 5 spread per armor instead of 6 which would give some meaning to failing. I think any higher though gives problems again.

For lvl25 gear vs 20. I don’t see it as that bad, maybe the gloves, boots, helmets have a spread but as posted above the values aren’t that far off a lvl25 green user . I think that someone who’s busted their ass for purple gear should deserve a advantage. Not saying a lvl24 can’t fight a 25, but it will be harder. I assume since there may be no xp loss people will fight more too

Terron
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Terron » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:30 am

problem is busting ass and purps dont usually go hand in hand. the guy who kills a protector of the vale 500x for a hum or shark 300x honestly put in way more effort. basically its like saying the lucky prick(and probably way to lazy to farm) that won and got that awesome shit eatin grin on his face, well, he gets to have that look once again. not sayin armor changes werent needed here, but an example is someone who spent months and months camping ringleader for a soft hum emerald helm for their main alt gets nothing for it.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

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Lateralus
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Lateralus » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:03 am

NiteHawk wrote:Right now a +6 hum would be equal to the next level up instead of higher. I’m not sure if we think that it a perfect could be +1 so a 5 spread per armor instead of 6 which would give some meaning to failing. I think any higher though gives problems again.



I can see a 5 on body armor and 3 on shield / helm spread working still gives us a good range to play with and if we really want we could move those extra 4 or so points to boots/gloves.

I understand what people are saying about why farm humming if it’s only going to at the very very best equal the next step up. I think giving a perfect the chance to be very slightly better would keep the people who are bummed about their hard farmed gear a little relief but much more importantly keep a reason for those solo players to go out and farm that gear with hopes of atleast something slightly above the next level.

With that said I’m perfectly fine keeping it at 6 and 4 but can see how 5 and 3 could be a middle ground to keeping current people happy, solo people farming and still having a nice progression range. (This coming from the person who will have to edit all the items once again lol).


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