Armor Buffs after update

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Lateralus
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Lateralus » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 am

As hawk said the range is pretty close. Level 20-24 in blues only has about 10 less ac than whites 25ers (which is the next step up) and 20 less than green 25ers.

Yea progression between 24 and top tier 25 is going to be pretty big but as hawk said we are aiming to have a pretty big progression range at 25 as most games do. Honestly a lot of games end game (lvl 25) usually has a bigger progression range than 1-24.

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NiteHawk
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:47 am

Just hold off until we finalize then . Putting it to 5 and 3 though is prob a good solution though so far I would say.

Without purples being of value it makes 0 sense to run them if you can farm them. That’s how it goes atm. We will see about lvl 20 gear though

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Styx
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Styx » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:34 am

I agree that the armor and weapons needs fixed. But the pp items are basicly out of question for people who play late at night. Yes there is the daily quests to get pp but the time frame is huge.

All in all we need more recruitment going on to increase player base. Which would help out a lot of things. One being 2 major guilds basicly fighting.

Terron
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Terron » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:00 am

at night all their is is leveling and dailies. but even dailies are being capped. so you'll only get a handful of marks per day at most. so lets say every 8-10 days u get 40 marks and buy 10 pp. u might get a radiant pp item per year. would be ok i guess if u had 1-5 characters, but if u only play at night youll have 50 or 100 to outfit by then. this is exactly why i didnt play while living on the California coast in PST zone. also why i still think oads need to be random.

also, guys, the armor update honestly changed nothing. you still want a purple with max hum. nothing new at all. i see 3 changes hummed greens equal shit, hummed blues worth more, 150pp armors might actually be a thing.
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anthriel
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby anthriel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:09 am

Styx wrote:I agree that the armor and weapons needs fixed. But the pp items are basicly out of question for people who play late at night. Yes there is the daily quests to get pp but the time frame is huge.

All in all we need more recruitment going on to increase player base. Which would help out a lot of things. One being 2 major guilds basicly fighting.


Agree with first paragraph. Disagree with second one as more recruitment now just basically leads to new recruits joining one of the 2 major guilds or whatever (ie more players doesn't automatically equate to guild diversity)

In my opinion the armor/item progression lengthening is a good and needed thing, but it is also a secondary thing to be implemented after core problems are fixed first.

Implementing the proposed armor/item changes now is like adding extra game time to a soccer tournament in which there are only 2 teams and one team has 50 players on the roster (and still recruiting) and the other team has like 10 (and they quitting). All the implementation of the extra match time is going to do is make a boring one-sided contest more boring and drawn out. No one is happy cos the dominating team gotta expend more effort to play for longer when they were already winning hands down, and the bored diminishing faction has even more incentive to feel that the uneven playing numbers means they may as well not bother anyway (and check out faster). Those who are waiting for a tournament rule change to introduce more teams etc aren't gonna be interested to come back to if all they are gonna do is watch more of the same story be dragged out even longer. So it seems everyone loses??

But if you first fix the main problem so there are numerous teams of equal opportunity/roster-size (or something like that) , then adding extra match time (ie game progression) actually means something good.

Basically my suggestion is to fix the dynamic of how ppl compete (currently majorly broken) BEFORE messing with the rewards for that competition (less majorly broken, and much dependent on the first issue). Otherwise you waste the impact you desire from implementing the change. That's my 2 cents. Peace.

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Inverno
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Inverno » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:30 am

The new ac values nerfed many of my stuff, but in long term, they make sense and can be good to the game.
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Kruell
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Kruell » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:42 am

I understand that each piece of armor's jump is relatively small. My concern is over the 30 point spread when all the gear totals are added up. I'm also in total agreement that a 25er with top notch purples has earned an extra advantage by having gotten top level gear. This is analogous to the few quested out PKers in RoK that everyone feared (Iced comes to mind with the div daggers). I was comparing green to green as an illustration since even a casual player should be able to equip greens fairly quickly. I'm glad that it has been at least thought about apparently though. I just hope that if there is a problem staff will consider "filler" armors to keep the danger in PKing. Right now it's funny watching PKers run as soon as they realize it's not an easy kill because they want to keep their K/D ratio down.

anthriel wrote:Basically my suggestion is to fix the dynamic of how ppl compete (currently majorly broken) BEFORE messing with the rewards for that competition (less majorly broken, and much dependent on the first issue). Otherwise you waste the impact you desire from implementing the change. That's my 2 cents. Peace.


Not everything needs to be fixed by code. I still believe staff can fix most guild dominance or large party issues with some creative areas or monsters. Nitehawk needs to focus on the the things only he can do. Others in staff (including event staff) need to see if they can think of ways to address the problems of guild dominance or smash style play with the tools they already have. It would be easy to build a widowmaker style event area that would actually penalize the larger guilds while also giving small, or non-guild players a serious chance to win. OaDs can be built to require not only strong single characters but also make it impossible for a single guild to dominate if someone intends actual competition. With the scripting system monsters can actually made tougher to beat with the more characters you bring to face them. Options exist....

Example: One of the main reasons I spread keys out in RoK was to give people who weren't part of a major clan to have a chance of getting access to top end OaDs. In order to actually get to fight the Enraged Ventus for the Heaven's Shield you had to have the sky key from the Cathedral. In order to get the sky key you either had to get the Demon Skin Manual from the center dark cave or had to wait until someone had opened the Cathedral to go after the divinity cloaks. Two chances were given for someone to intercept the access to the Heaven's Shield for their own friends/clan. I put other requirements in place in other OaDs that made people need specific race or class combinations to gain access, some of which were unusual to see on regular OaD runs. OaDs where pathways change and choices must be made occasionally made clans argue internally and forced members from warring clans together to go after something the main clans didn't think was important.

This change for armor was an absolute MUST FIX issue and has been for a while. Build couldn't make the changes themselves because it required a code change on the back end to prevent breaking the system. Since we are dealing with an individual and not a company tackling more than one major issue at a time is problematic. Look how long this update has been delayed due to extra things being added to the "must fix" list. Things have to be prioritized and while there are many things that needs reviewed and fixed, Nitehawk should be able to focus on one or two things at a time and ignore other things until he is ready to tackle them. I've worked with many of the members who are currently on staff at other times and I trust them to be able to apply some band-aids to the game while the creator is otherwise occupied.
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JadeFalcon
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby JadeFalcon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:24 am

Kruell wrote:Right now it's funny watching PKers run as soon as they realize it's not an easy kill because they want to keep their K/D ratio down.


I don't run, i strategically retreat with my tail between my legs!

Kruell wrote:Example: One of the main reasons I spread keys out in RoK was to give people who weren't part of a major clan to have a chance of getting access to top end OaDs. In order to actually get to fight the Enraged Ventus for the Heaven's Shield you had to have the sky key from the Cathedral. In order to get the sky key you either had to get the Demon Skin Manual from the center dark cave or had to wait until someone had opened the Cathedral to go after the divinity cloaks. Two chances were given for someone to intercept the access to the Heaven's Shield for their own friends/clan. I put other requirements in place in other OaDs that made people need specific race or class combinations to gain access, some of which were unusual to see on regular OaD runs. OaDs where pathways change and choices must be made occasionally made clans argue internally and forced members from warring clans together to go after something the main clans didn't think was important.


This seems like a good idea.
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NiteHawk
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:04 pm

We did talk about that before too. I honestly preferred the key system in ROK myself. It wasnt' 100% but having a few keys spawn at the same time normally meant one guild couldn't jump on everything, though we need more OADs, and I'd be in favor of lower amount of player OADs too as well.

But back on topic. We'll see what we can do 8) This is a small change, and imo I haven't really done much to it, it's mostly a couple value tweaks and build changes the files.

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Lateralus
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Re: Armor Buffs after update

Postby Lateralus » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:15 pm

Values have been updated and slightly tweaked.


Summary: instead of there being a 6ac gap between each body armor at level 25 there is only a 5ac gap. This means high hum armors will be +1 on the next level rather than equal. Also the gap between helms and shields is now 3ac instead of 4ac again meaning a top hum (soft) will be +1 on the step up.

Examples:
Green: 21
Blue: 26
Purple: 31

Meaning a red velvet cloak (blue cloth armor) is 26ac
However a high hum will be 32ac (+1ac on a regular purple)


This should still allow us some nice room for progression as well as still giving incentive to farm humming in the chance you get a high hum that is slightly higher than the color level above. Also should be a bit of a middle ground for those who have worked hard for their perfect humming armors that were upset by the decision. We are for sure listening hopefully this middle ground works for everyone as well as the future of the game.


Here is the updated chart:


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0


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