Guilds Redux

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Miach
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby Miach » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:57 pm

Like I've said in the past, incentivize what you're trying to accomplish.

Here's an idea of the top of my head:

CREATE guildCount as Integer = 1
CREATE loopCounter as Integer = 0
CREATE tempGuild as String

loopCounter = Party.Size()
tempGuild = Party.Player(loopCounter-1).Guild()
loopCounter = loopCounter -1
WHILE (loopCounter > 0)
IF (tempGuild != Party.Player(loopCounter-1).Guild()) THEN
guildCount = guildCount + 1
END IF
loopCount = loopCount -1
END WHILE
IF (guildCount > 1)
dropRate = dropRate + (dropRate * 0.05 * guildCount)

Some pseudocode so you get the idea. Incentivize mixed grouping.

Edit: some people will take this at face value, please realize this was off the top of my head and there are other ways to incentivize group mixing without replacing the need for a brigand or anything. This was just idea #1 of what could be many ideas. I wrote it just to get your thinkers thinking.
Last edited by Miach on Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

anthriel
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby anthriel » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:58 pm

I'm obviously supportive of something being done to promote guild diversity and reduce factionalism within the playerbase

I dont have alot of time atm to think of new ideas so ill chuck in my comments on the existing ones:

Option 1 - I think if we go this route then a different (better) mechanism has to be put in place. Eg each account has a "house" attached to it and houses can have allegiances to other houses etc or something to that effect. I might be "House Ronin" or something... and maybe i decide that im a casual and need to become the bannerman of a more active player etc (eg say Gyko's House Brotherhood). Or maybe i become the ally of another house like Mort's House Fart or whatever. Then add in some aim like the ultimate goal for each house is to sit on throne of Alderra (which perhaps pays that account some good rewards to do aspire to this - eg PP/champmarks/gold/taxes etc per day)... so if Gyko wants to do that and gather lots of bannermen/allies then he can but he'll have to work hard to keep them all happy cos he's the only one getting the rewards from sitting on the throne... He may also have to fight off House Footclan & all AJ's bannermen/allies or House Soma & all Eli's bannermen/allies etc..... and if he doesnt keep me & his other bannermen happy we may switch allegiance to House Soma or House Footclan etc... basically something like this could end up like a game of thrones esque type dynamic (though not sure if politcally backstabbin each other could create more drama too lol - but it would be interesting)... basically it allows ppl to network more as individuals though.

Option 2 - i do think this is preferable to superguilds but the chat channel functionality may need some further upgrading to accommodate this. Otherwise a limit of even 15-20accounts could be a compromise as it would see more guild diversity than now. There may also need to be ways to help newbies (eg autojoin newbie guild where other guilds can send 1-2 of their most friendly representatives to be part of the newbie guild too - ie a functionality which allows say 2 ppl per guild to multi-guild in the newbie guild if they are the guild's designated "newbie rep"). I am a fan of some form of global embers or guild-specialisation like Wayne mentioned. It could make for more interesting dynamics.

Option 3 - this would obviously only be possible if you remove 1 guild per account. It does help reduce factionalism but i feel there is no easy mechanism to change divs on chars so unless that was introduced there would be a weird mismatch to begin with. Eg i for one have no voltus 25ers and im probably not going to bother leveling one.

Option 4 - ive never played WOW or any other factional game so i dont know how it would go. I'm not entirely sure how it solves problems having 2 large set guilds though. Its just like what we have now but you take the management out of player hands?

Other Options eg incentive systems - I'm still a fan of incentive systems rather than hard caps. I think its better to allow ppl to choose something based on what they value than be forced. You just have to make the incentives sweet enough. Some variant of my initial suggested system is still the best thing i can think of atm. Here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1512 .... can obviously be modified to pay them in herocoins/champ-marks/more-lucrative control crystal rewards/whatever... but something like this at least promotes activity and leaves ppl with the choice of staying with all their friends and earning less or branching out to potentially earn more. Some may not take it, some will.

Shrugs that's all i have for now. Will post if i can think of any other suggestions or if any other posts here inspire ideas to that regard. Peace all.

S0mveraa
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby S0mveraa » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:09 pm

Oh yeah..allow me to add I personally think this will solve itself when we get more people playing the game, advertising and what not. The size of the player base now only allows for so much, and if we change it to meet the demands we face now. It might not be so good if we suddenly doubled in size or more ...i think. I'm just the nub tho :D

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Miach
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby Miach » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:26 pm

@Soma good thought

That's why you introduce something that will be okay and has scaling capability

Ohko
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 5:47 pm

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby Ohko » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:44 am

I agree guild needs to be revamped. However, the whole staff/guild thing is imo a non-issue. It have been said before and remains true, being on build is actually more disadvantageous to a guild rather than it being a benefit for the guild. You also can't split staff evenly between guild. Since I've been on staff besides NH/Lat/Ack, all I've seen are a number of rotating new staff members who for one reason or another couldn't remain being staff and inactive staff coming back for a little bit sometimes disappearing again. Can't really say, "your guild already have 2 staff members. I really want/need you on staff but you're SOL," or "You have to join another guild before I can hire you". That would just discourage people from applying to be staff and NH already needs more not less.

Out of the four options, I like a combination of option 2 and 4. (explained below)

Option 1, I think will scatter people too much. People will just organize outside of the game (ex. Discord) as someone said previously. We would probably need to have something to replace guilds tho.

Option 2 allows us to keep something to what we have already, but scaling down a bit. A max of 5 is definitely too little. 10, maybe 12 max I think is a good number I think. I've said it before, I think a size limit is a good thing. It would allow the guild to keep a group of core members and a handful of more casual players so they can have a full party to run Oads. If you have people that stops playing, kick them out and replace them with active people. When they come back, either you have space for them, join another guild or form a new one and make an alliance. This option doesn't stop alliances, but I think long term wise it will probably sort itself out. Or maybe not.

Option 3, is just weird if you split by divinity. Like Som said, one div will always beat up a specific div. Race wouldn't work either since some races don't do well for certain classes (minus Inverno's weird alts).

Option 4 is interesting. Having a 2-3 factions could work given that all sides are balanced. It would work better if there's a larger playerbase but could be done with 20-30 players. Factions get reshuffled each period/season. At the begining of each season each player picks a side, but you can not pick one that have more than the others. Selection is upon first signon at season reset so you can't really wait for the other sides to fill up so you can join your friend's side. You could, but you might be waiting awhile. During the season, you try to achieve certain goals for your fraction like how many zones you can keep control, most bosses killed, etc. At the end of the season, the players on the winning side gets some rewards (xp/gold scroll, special crafting materials, cm/pp, etc). You could still include small guilds (maybe a little bigger than strictly option 2) so people can feel they're still with their friends, but working with your guilds won't have as much of a benefit compare to factions.

With either option 2 or 4, we could include special guild/faction weekly/monthly quests.
  • Participate in # of faction zone captures, faction wars, faction activity, etc...
  • Run # daily quests with guild members
  • Level # 25ers
  • etc...

I have some more ideas, but I'm getting too tired to type them out.
Tivrusky

"The computer’s kaput and we’re drifting through space towards certain oblivion."

anthriel
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby anthriel » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:10 am

Just responding to Soma & Miach’s well worn idea that advertising and getting more players will naturally solve the problem ...

My well worn rebuttal to this logic is this: EO has a bigger retention problem than it does attracting new players (which ROK goodwill largely takes care of)... just look at the number of forum accounts vs number of active players ... ppl r coming, playing awhile n leaving... and a large part of the problem is the current guild system which leads to factionalism, toxicity etc. So based on having seen this cycle play out many times I refute the suggestion that just advertising and getting new players with the current system is going to fix anything (cos ppl don’t stay). I can only see it repeating the current cycle/trends and burning more ROK goodwill. This is a why we need to fix the system/problem before advertising imho.

S0mveraa
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby S0mveraa » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:16 am

anthriel wrote:Just responding to Soma & Miach’s well worn idea that advertising and getting more players will naturally solve the problem ...

My well worn rebuttal to this logic is this: EO has a bigger retention problem than it does attracting new players (which ROK goodwill largely takes care of)... just look at the number of forum accounts vs number of active players ... ppl r coming, playing awhile n leaving... and a large part of the problem is the current guild system which leads to factionalism, toxicity etc. So based on having seen this cycle play out many times I refute the suggestion that just advertising and getting new players with the current system is going to fix anything (cos ppl don’t stay). I can only see it repeating the current cycle/trends and burning more ROK goodwill. This is a why we need to fix the system/problem before advertising imho.



Yeah man I haven't been around all that long, as I said that's just my...mostly uniformed opinion, more optimism then anything else I suppose. I Support any changes that help the game grow, no matter what.

Rafael
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby Rafael » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:09 am

I think that an area with middle purples (stuff that comes radiante and humed that are +1 on blues) that ENFORCE guilds to work togheter, like a guild locker to Keys, and make guildes work togheter.... its a way to reduce toxic..

make people work togheter

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Hanibal
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Guilds Redux

Postby Hanibal » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:51 am

Just my 2 cents, I'm all for smaller guilds myself but the only issue with it is if its small and you need at least 5-6 people to run most if not all the keys/bosses to compete with said big guilds you cant.

To fix this why not allow a 2 character log in system?

Now some people will say won't those bigger guilds just be bigger, well of course but if it could be coded some how to limit the amount of people/guild allowed per room be it boss or key or area that may be a easy solution. Or limit the amount of people/accounts allowed per guild.

Or get rid of bosses altogether, design a craft looting system where all mobs drop items that could be crafted to make different gear, ie: cloth for light/cloth armor, iron for med/heavy and weapons, this would eliminate the need to be in a big guild other then for people to hang with.

Maybe design a dungeon crawl area that would take hours to complete, with a lot of team work with descent rewards so those people who feel they need that kind of stuff aren't left out.

I don't know, I have always been for alts, leveling alone sucks and grinding out one char at a time isnt fun either. Also not being in a boss friendly time zone doesnt allow myself and most people to be on to do them.

Again just my 2 cents and a few ideas.

Edit: Wanted to add an argument behind my train of thought, if big guilds are about getting loot and dominating world crawlers eliminate or change the way the boss system is designed, sometimes the easiest fix is overlooked. I mean most mobs drops stuff now just make it so they can be used for something other then handing them in for quests.

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Miach
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Re: Guilds Redux

Postby Miach » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:32 am

What is it that we're trying to accomplish?

Why is this a problem?

On your end, what can you do to fix it with or without game changes?

If everyone can answer those questions that would help. I think commonly we, as humans, look externally for a solution because it is easier than accepting that the problem can be fixed internally or that the fault is not in the game or its mechanisms.

I appreciate all of the thought and input so far, but look at the coding job a lot of the ideas require. What you're asking or proposing in many cases isn't impossible, but would 1) alter the game almost entirely or 2) become a domino effect of balance/counterbalance or 3) take a long time to develop, test, and implement.

What is the most effective and simplest solution that is not radical in nature?

Let's keep the discussion going.


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