New Guild and Boss Systems.

Terron
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:31 pm

wait what? where'd he come from. spot on post man +100.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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daedroth
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby daedroth » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:40 am

Kruell wrote:I believe the problems with Ember retaining players can be boiled down to simple terms. People can't agree on the type of game they want it to be. I've heard a bunch of people say we need more pvp. Some people argue for more content, others say we need less to force more pvp. Right now the game is geared toward die hard players who grind away for hours a day. The main focus on things seems to be pvp (for instance, the thief class event focused on brute force fights with no attention to their main stealth ability). Areas and events are geared towards big groups/guilds where casual players don't stand a chance. Changing the fundamental system behind the game isn't required to fix these things, there are other ways we can go forward to actually manage to retain people.

1 PVP focus. It needs to end. I know a lot of people love the PVP aspect of the game but really it's time to quit pushing for more PVP. More PVP won't make the game viable in the long term. The lack of ability to play the game without PVP may be hurting the game. I have spoken to a lot of people who have gotten tired of the constant fighting in every aspect of the game. Everything centers around PVP, and as a PVP enabled game a certain amount is expected but we may have gone overboard in catering to a few at the expense of the many. This doesn't mean PVP should be removed, it means there needs to be some things in game that aren't subject to PVP for people who have no taste for it or simply don't like the attendant drama.

2 Casual Play desired. Not everyone can devote several hours a day or one whole day a week to playing the game. Sometimes people want to log on for 20 minutes and do something. Right now, you have to be really lucky in the 20 minute window you log on to do something other than level a character. With some people having 20+ lvl 25ers, there is nothing desirable to gain from leveling. It's time to put more stuff in game for people who have only a casual desire to play. If that means putting in dozens of mini-bosses in game so be it. Personally, I'd like to have an area with mini-bosses spawning hourly that drop decent gear but that disappear if they aren't killed in time. Throw in more "walkers" in leveling areas and you end up with a reason for people to log on and run around looking for stuff. Once crafting is introduced, having the "bosses" drop materials would be a good way to balance these out and give another pathway of attaining items as well as something casual players can do without needing a large guild.

3 Why are we here? Simply put, we need an immersive Lore. I take some responsibility for this since I've been working on Lore. Learning all the new stuff that has been put in over the last 2 years and then shoehorning it into a single cohesive lore structure isn't easy. Once we have a Lore base, we need to stick to it and build areas to play to it. We also need quest lines that take players through the story as well as giving them "perks" for completing milestones along the way. Think of the reputation system in World of Warcraft, we could easily use something like that for Ember. Once we have a set Lore, we can have a Questmaster to work on massive story lines where the players get to influence the world and help shape how things evolve.

4 The GRIND! It would help to fill in the grinding gaps. Once you hit level 20ish you start hitting large gaps in the quests forcing you to instead result to grinding away on killing certain monsters in order to hit max level. I believe we need to allow players other pathways to getting their characters finished without having to result to mindlessly wandering the wilds killing things. We could put more repeatable quests in as well as expanding the quests to be cross-zone, much like the dailies.

5 Toxicity. Ever read the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct from other games? We have people who play this game who would be banned quickly from other games for being a detriment to the game. Wizards of the Coast and Blizzard both have expansive CoCs and they deal with players who are a detriment to the game rather harshly. I have a confession, I had an account banned for life from Blizzard for violating their CoC. Not sure what I did as all they will tell me is I violated their terms, but after it happened I had to rebuild from nothing and made sure I didn't do anything in violation of their rules. Make it painful to break the rules, or make other people not want to play, and you will learn to play nice.


PVP:
In the past it there was talk of introducing PvP free zones. The world space is small though, but it should be easy enough to introduce, it would maybe mean bending the rules a little. If there are PvP free zones I prefer if there is a reason for them being PvP free zones (patrols, Godly intervention, punishments outweigh the reward).
Ideas: PvP in dungeons only, everywhere else has patrols.
You could allow PvP everywhere, but in "civilised lands" there would be a penalty in place that would make it not worthwhile. You become a criminal and you are refused entry into any civilised areas, want to stock up on potions? tough luck. You now get attacked by random patrols, bounty hunters (they drop nothing, maybe give no experience). You need to pay gold (a flat fee and/or level fee and/or % based on account wealth - items and gold in banks that all your characters have) or run a quest to remove your criminal status. Basically make it so that the punishment is way more detrimental than any potential reward.
Rewards: Less experience, gold and drop chance (think arena - area is safer so less rewards). You could maybe even remove arenas and turn them into no drop pvp rooms (could have bets that you can enter, but the payer will be the participants ie: Player one says he can kill player two and puts up 1000 gold, player 2 can match this if they want, make it like a trade window).
Uncivilised areas (dungeons): You are given a warning you are entering an unsafe area you can be pk'd.
Rewards: You get the usual experience and drop chance.

Casual Play Desired:
Roaming bosses, elites, world walkers, crafting items all mentioned before. Needs repeating though. I repeat myself a lot because the same issues keep getting mentioned again and again (also everything get buried under mountains of postings...).
Could we maybe start to sticky certain things that have been tough of and approved or have them put into a "future development items" thread, maybe sub categorise them to keep better track?

Why Are we Here:
Definitely needs more lore and for future areas to fit into this lore. Some objectives that can end/grow/change world events. I'm guessing that will be a lot of work though.

The Grind:
I always suggested more quests that can be repeated :
Bounties, Resource needs, trade (which could be like an escort mission), find item/s, find person/s, escort person/s, guard item/place/person/s etc etc. Also (again) quest level restrictions based on item level requirements (1+ 8+ 15+ 20+ 25). The existing level requirements could be turned into: Recommended Level.
No harm in using pre-existing ones though (some are like bounty ones and it would be fiting if they returned because it would make sense - the Canopia keep the roads clear one for example).
I am also rather partial to my all quests give CM idea, then the dailies could be more like a repeatable quest (as I said this would also encourage small groups and reward solo play).
I myself find that 20+ the experience needed to advance, and the level restrictions of quests, means there is a gap between quests that can only be filled by the indiscriminate slaughter of the indigenous fauna. More repeatable quests and the level restrictions set out like item level restrictions would help negate this grind.

Toxicity:
Definitely needs removing. Everyone's opinion on toxicity is different, but best to err on the side of caution and introduce more rules/punishment (needs to be tempered with common sense).
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
I love sheep.

Terron
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:00 pm

im not a huge fan of non pvp areas, pvp should definitely be available, muds cant afford to shut out any category or player type. we need all the players we can get, cant give them any reason to just walk away or not even try it out in the first place. that being said, the game doesnt have to be mandatory pvp fights like keys, control crystals etc. its the pvp alot of people like the most, but its also pvp most people like the least. so we have to eliminate the mandatory pvp to access certain content. we can have better events, certain oad-like content thats based on solo pvp.

however for the most part the huge key fights have to go away. sorry but discording a bunch of non players to log on and oppress the outnumbered steady players is a shitty tactic and design. 25ers get no penalties for dying and this has gone on for way too long. face the facts here, you are going to either lose unrealistic guild numbers or lose the entire pvp system on keys for the game to go on and gain player count.

set timers wont work on an app/fb game so it will already help with the above.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Styx
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Styx » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:03 am

1. I think it would be good for more classes and races to be added, gives it more diversity. Yes a lot of them will blend into almost the same thing, but what if a player just wanted to be a dragon, (disclaimer there won't be dragon race ino) but they can be something different, and it's in their own view of what a person wants.
2. More races would allow people to choose to become something different. Ie, I don't know many woman who want to be an orc, but if there was a race with simmilar stats that was more feminine, ie a amazon warrior or something as example, if it makes the person happier and able to become something else, isn't that what Roleplay is all about?
3. We need to get all classes or what could be possible new classes with its own set of elite attack skills. Question current classes with no special attack and that would be something needed to be done before ios or andriod phone (yes phone. It can be done look it up on play store. ) the phone version would work plus it could use seperate screen to appear or disappear, buttons to tap, compass fir movement. It's already been done and it works
4. We are not going to just junk out the whole entire system. There will always be one class that's the uber killer in a game, the only way you will achieve the perfection people seek is if there was only one race one class, we offer different races and classes to give it depth, yes it's never going to be perfect in some people's world but people have a choice.
5. Not everyone is gobby or dark elf. My gobby ninja died so much I quit playing him a year ago, dark elf I do at times.
6. On the part of if we built ios or andriod phone client. YES it will make us grow so fast that all the old players who gained their "I am uber God mode" and now they have to fight the newbs. Sounds like people are scared of competition imo
7. If we continue to tear apart the game basics then people will accomplish the goal of destroying the game, why, it's taking away from others being able to enjoy the game to begin with.
8. Go ask your kid where did they get their game?

Dad/mom, I went on the play store like this, then I downloaded it on my phone, see dad/mon?

Yes that's exactly my my kids told me.

if we do not change to what the world has changed to then we will be needed as much as a buggy whip. Yes it's called becoming obsolete because we have all got old, face the facts ...

9. Some things of dnd can and cannot be incorporated in this, example, we can't have 8 high level wizards each casting different spells to give a certain instant death kill, or able to warp someone to x location cause they died. That was an extreme example bte, sarcasm atm

10. Quests, yes there is a exping gap in quests, build staff will be making more quests to fix the issue. There are several areas that are underdeveloped and can have an enormous impact on the finishing of lvl 20 to 23, and will be on my next todo list.

11. I'm sure there is more but I can't remember it all

12. I'm against the pacifist class, people abused it by having them follow the larger groups and doing the healing without worry of death.

13. This game is pvp. It will not change. If you knew it was pvp then why did you play knowing full well it was to begin with.

14. If you want a system based on non pvp then we could have it. But it will get boring quick.

15. I've seen it mentioned about having a bonus to log on benefits. This would help those who log in for 30 min to be able to play.

16. Our numbers are lower, but once again, some people have children and a person's real life always comes first.

17. People are scared of new classes cause they will loose their uber ability of the so called current meta in any given game. We should embrace it and accept change to new experiences instead of just cutting every single thing down.

18. Guilds work, instead of trying to destroy the guild system get more people to join the game, then we can have guilds to fight over stuff. That way later on people can complain about xxx is spying on xxx guild. Like omg. If it's not one complaint then it's another. The real thing we need is more people.

Terron
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:05 am

14. If you want a system based on non pvp then we could have it. But it will get boring quick.

lol if you want to expand into facebook and app store/tablet bs and you think this you are dead wrong. these games you only duel/pvp if you "want" to and still get access to ALL of the content. and im pretty sure they have 12345x more players than ember.

truth is its already boring dude. the way the system is set up very few people get to do any of the special content thats been built on the game. they are left with training characters. its a downward spiral and "griefing" tactics, mostly by guild system, have chased everyone off, or into a stagnant dont care anymore state. the only way to keep people interested is to drop an event each month, and even that is slowly showing lack of interest.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

Lorelle
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Lorelle » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:43 pm

I wish someone would listen to this guy, last night my time I logged in, ran into two people one was in tormented and was leveling the other was in a guild called worst guild name ever. So that’s 3/4 people active in the pre reset time period not in a guild.
The only players who can prosper are the USA nerds who are either lucky enough to work at home or are losers with no families.
Please find balance I like this game but it’s frustrating being in a oceanic Timezone

Terron
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:33 pm

not really the US timezones either imo. its been said that those timezones get everything. but aside from koth they dont get much. compare it to something like GMT where almost the entirity of game content is 5pm-12pm. there are 7 pm oads for EST but generally if u have a family you miss it all like u said. i mean 2-7 pm are the absolute worst times imagineable for anyone with a family and especially children, thats what u get for EST where the majority of players reside in.

daily routine - reset ? cant getting myself and kids ready for school and taking them, salamander at work sorry, oh archfiend/blackspawn? sorry not skipping lunch break to remote kill that today, seta? sorry im not quite out of work yet or driving, 7 pm srry gotta get these children ready for bed. 8 pm -yay koth oh i died. whats left!? thanatos plz spawn before 10pm i need to sleep for work... or 1 am oads ? NOTY. guess i can train for 2 hrs for no reason whatsoever.

how many others have similar difficulties finding content that never changes time? and it will never change. old system from a DEAD game, that just seems to linger around and doesn't get let go.

maybe if i log on tomorrow the oads will respawn differently and it can be exciting again? nope its the exact same for everyone every single day. if you log on during non content times you will never, ever, ever see any content on the game no matter how many days you log in consecutively.

well atleast theres a daily system to give people something to do. rewarded with training faster weapons and exp...the only thing you dont need.

love the game but seems like some things arent thought through. lets just take it 1 step at a time and go from there.

step 1 - this aint ROK, time to let go.
step 2 - no point in going further until step 1 is complete.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Styx
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Styx » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:29 am

Actually rok, all oads were at one time, reset, that's it, so yes we are not doing it like rok

Terron
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:15 am

whats the difference lol? i mean really u have reset 9 pm 11 pm noon and 4 pm while 80% of your players are at work? or dont they work? euros eat these up..just like rok. point is u cant set times on content its a shit mechanic, like it or not. a full 75% of the content is gone usually before any american should be playing at all. and when theres high activity the oads are always ran before most of us get home.
hell in a way, its better to drop every oad in at the same time. then theres no way 5 people can take them all if theres remotely any competition whatsoever.

you can keep reassuring yourself of how perfect this system is, ill continue to watch the activity plummet. tick tock...
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

anthriel
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby anthriel » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:44 am

Terron wrote:im not a huge fan of non pvp areas, pvp should definitely be available, muds cant afford to shut out any category or player type. we need all the players we can get, cant give them any reason to just walk away or not even try it out in the first place. that being said, the game doesnt have to be mandatory pvp fights like keys, control crystals etc. its the pvp alot of people like the most, but its also pvp most people like the least. so we have to eliminate the mandatory pvp to access certain content. we can have better events, certain oad-like content thats based on solo pvp.

however for the most part the huge key fights have to go away. sorry but discording a bunch of non players to log on and oppress the outnumbered steady players is a shitty tactic and design. 25ers get no penalties for dying and this has gone on for way too long. face the facts here, you are going to either lose unrealistic guild numbers or lose the entire pvp system on keys for the game to go on and gain player count.

set timers wont work on an app/fb game so it will already help with the above.


100% agree. Especially that we cant afford to shut out any possible player type and that the PVP over keys etc (ie directly related to guild & loot system issues) can be fixed/re-designed to be better for all.

Styx wrote:1. I think it would be good for more classes and races to be added, gives it more diversity. Yes a lot of them will blend into almost the same thing, but what if a player just wanted to be a dragon, (disclaimer there won't be dragon race ino) but they can be something different, and it's in their own view of what a person wants.
2. More races would allow people to choose to become something different. Ie, I don't know many woman who want to be an orc, but if there was a race with simmilar stats that was more feminine, ie a amazon warrior or something as example, if it makes the person happier and able to become something else, isn't that what Roleplay is all about?
3. We need to get all classes or what could be possible new classes with its own set of elite attack skills. Question current classes with no special attack and that would be something needed to be done before ios or andriod phone (yes phone. It can be done look it up on play store. ) the phone version would work plus it could use seperate screen to appear or disappear, buttons to tap, compass fir movement. It's already been done and it works


New classes / races etc are short term fixes. They are exciting for awhile but there is a revolving door problem due to broken guild/loot system and adding more and more of these to generate interest is an unfeasable way to fix the issue (not to mention a balance nightmare)

Styx wrote:13. This game is pvp. It will not change. If you knew it was pvp then why did you play knowing full well it was to begin with.
14. If you want a system based on non pvp then we could have it. But it will get boring quick.


I like the pvp part of the game and i think it should stay. Terron's earlier post is true tho that we do want to consider how we can cater for both pvp and non-pvp loving gamers.

Styx wrote:16. Our numbers are lower, but once again, some people have children and a person's real life always comes first.


No one is disputing that people have real lives and important priorities. However this is a foolish excuse and a smokescreen. Even the most busy EO gamer has devoted some amount of time to the game (whether a casual 2hrs a day or a hardcore 10hrs+ a day) and they have done so in the past. But now many players who played more in the past (despite busy real lives etc) have grown so weary of the broken guild/loot system that they now no longer choose to play EO with their leisure hours (whether that is a small amount if they are busy irl or a large amount if they are not). Basically the loot/guild system issues have turned people off to such a degree that they value doing other things with what leisure time they do have, rather than play EO with it. Saying that numbers are lower now because of people's busy lives is a poor/overly-simplistic analysis of why once motivated players are no longer motivated.

Styx wrote:18. Guilds work, instead of trying to destroy the guild system get more people to join the game, then we can have guilds to fight over stuff. That way later on people can complain about xxx is spying on xxx guild. Like omg. If it's not one complaint then it's another. The real thing we need is more people.


Guilds do work in most games. This game's guild system (and related loot system) is broken though and needs fixing (ideally so we can keep guilds but not in such a toxic/factional way). SAYING "WE NEED MORE PEOPLE" IS PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE! Sure everything would be better if we can get more people. BUT WE CANT KEEP PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE BROKEN GUILD/LOOT SYSTEM! Please wake up from "overly-simplistic, smokescreen, optimism dreamland" and smell the cold hard reality.

Peace.


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