Instead of 25+

anthriel
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Instead of 25+

Postby anthriel » Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:41 pm

I don’t mind more progression (e.g. some sort of 25+ rebirth etc) but I feel that the way we go with 50ish characters there is bound to be more leveling/equipment fatigue (I suspect there is already some but it would be worse if suddenly everyone’s 25ers were the equivalent of a lvl 20 again and you have 50 of em)

So I offer an alternative suggestion. It doesn’t fix all the progression problems and I’m still happy to have some sort of additional progression in tandem (but maybe not as much as lvl 25-50). What it does do is allow people who want to play more of a “main” to do so and see tangible benefits of doing so, but also with some additional risk/replayability.

Basically I suggest this: now that we are all restricted to 1 account each, allow each account to create 1 special character (let’s call these angelic/demonic characters for lack of a better creative lore term atm). These characters only require 10% the exp to level to lvl25, have 50% more HP and hit for 150% damage to a normal 25er (these values could be adjusted eg maybe 50% on more HP on priest is OP but basically they should dominate). Their drawback is that they suffer permadeath (basically upon death, you are back to lvl 1, all exp is wiped and all items equipped and in inventory are dropped - ie soulbinding doesn’t work).

Here is why I think this system would benefit the game:

    1. People could enjoy playing these characters as mains and dominating with them. Eg say someone like JF/Tyrargo could have a angelic/demonic saurian slayer and round people like he wants to. Dominating is something ppl enjoyed in ROK (usually via obtaining OP weapons) and lament not being able to do as much in EO (so we cater for this market)
    2. There is a risk/reward with dominating. Right now if Tyrargo is hunting you he could do so with impunity and zero repercussion (and he has done so in the past). But if he was using one of these chars then he may kill you easier, but as a victim you might now find it worth setting a trap for him (eg asking a guildie to put a secretly faded chanter in your party). If you kill him then he has to level 35mil again before he can come back after you. (The combination of points 1&2 should revive the Pking element from ROK that was lost in recent no-exp-loss etc changes, but do it in a better/more fair way than early EO)
    3. It helps even out the "bigger numbers = always better" PVP dynamic cos now you have a choice to bring one of these ‘uber’ characters to try and offset the numbers imbalance. 3 could actually beat 5 If one of the 3 was a demonic/angelic char. None of the 5 may want to risk their own demonic/angelic chars.
    4. It promotes more leveling in a nice way. Basically levelling 35mil is not very hard for anyone and most people won’t find this too tedious. Yes it would hurt to lose your angelic/demonic char but you could get it back in not too long. With more repeated leveling of these chars, more game areas are used and there is an incentive to PK again. Eg JF is re-levelling his demonic-Saurian slayer Tyrargo - maybe let’s go hunt him! (i.e. the main chars being re-levelled and targeted for PKing are likely these uber angelic/demonic chars)
    5. It increases the market for (currently useless) grey and green items. Who wants a dreadfang? Only newbs or perhaps as fodder when crafting comes in. But with this system you will want dreadfangs cos it’s unlikely u r gonna equip your demonic saurian slayer with a devils horn (cos its likely he will eventually die and you will drop it). So the market & usefulness for green items especially will increase.
    6. Could add some spice to events if these chars were added (eg you could gamble to win the whole thing by bringing your angelic/demonic char but if someone else does too then one of u will be crying). Alternatively you could ban these chars from some events (or have angelic/demonic char only events) if it makes for better balance.
    7. Allows ppl to try different race/class combos quicker than the tedious grind of lvling a normal 25er. I’m never going to level an elemental guardian for example (I know others have, but with my lack of time and for very niche use, it’s just not worth it). But with these angelic/demonic chars only needing 30-35mil exp I just might do so. And when it dies evenetually, I might try levelling an intelligence-build gnome elder (something else I think is not worth it now but could be viable as an angelic/demonic char)
    8. Allows people to do OADs undermanned (ie improves numbers needed for PVE dynamic). Perhaps using these demonic/angelic chars you might be able to risk doing mana caverns OAD with only 3 ppl. This would reduce the strain of always needing big numbers and big guilds etc to do things.
    9. Allows new players to get into the game and enjoy interacting with others in endgame action much faster. Right now, the perception of new players is often that they are stuck grinding away alone slowly while their guildies are off doing some keys, bosses and other 'fun' stuff they cant participate in (level-locked zones/areas makes this even worse cos u may not even be able to level with others if say you are at lvl 20 and your guildies are 23+ leveling in dreadlands). With these type chars at least the newbie could quickly get a character that could help do 'cool' stuff and interact with others on endgame content. This should help new player interest/retention.
    10. It opens a new paradigm for casual players, which could help playerbase growth. Basically some casuals may decide to only play their one angelic/demonic char and enjoy doing that. (Hardcore players can still invest in building their versatile army of 50+ regular 25ers). With this option, a casual can enjoy endgame content in a short amount of time-investment and not overly care about farming the best purple equip etc cos their angelic/demonic char should be quite competitive to normal chars, and if/when they die they can happily enjoy the replayability. This could help if trying to cater for mass market (esp if EO is serious about trying to enter the realm of games for tablets/apps etc where ppl want more instant gratification).

Basically what I’m suggesting doesn’t solve all the problems of ongoing progression but it does add a lot of “replayability” and it caters to a lot of “markets” of players and what they liked about ROK (eg pking, dominating etc) while adding some helpful counterbalances to current EO (reduces emphasis on numbers for pvp/pvp, adds risks to pking/dominating, allows people to focus on a “main” if they choose, revives economy for green items etc etc).

Hope this helps. Peace.

Terron
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Terron » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:50 pm

myself i wouldnt bother with a supercrit on this game. the only ones that will be used are slayers (150% damage...) and chanters yummo 250-350s. they will only be used to grief other characters. and all that power insta gibbed when you leave town and get dropped instantly by 2 npcs slapping you for 700s as you walk by. whats to say you even equip them anyway? 150% i can probably round anyone with 2 raiders edge while naked.

yeah wouldnt bother contributing to griefing everyone thats left. theres always pac-man if i want to play high score games. you could essentially just give every class rounding power and achieve exactly what u want. it just burns everyone out.

we really need to focus on enjoyment of everyone and all future prospects. not implementing things that benefit a select few and anger others.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

anthriel
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Instead of 25+

Postby anthriel » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:24 pm

It’s hard to “focus on the enjoyment of everyone” because people enjoy different things. Some want to pk/pvp and dominate. Some want to be left alone to pve. Some want to RP etc. You are the one who rightly said we can’t afford to alienate any groups of players.

My suggestion is merely trying to help cater for more different “markets” of enjoyment. So what if ppl use the chars to PK. Right now the victim loses next to nothing and under my system the risk is all on the PKer cos he could lose his char if things go badly for him. If +50%hp/+150%damage is too much then make it 30% or whatever shrugs. It’s basically the concept (for the reasons I outlined) that I am saying will be helpful overall. It adds replayability. It blends with the current system relatively well (ie instead of nerfing everyone’s permanent characters it lets u play 2 diff tracks - ie. permanent and impermanent characters - which have their own pros/cons/functions etc). It helps with a lot of the ‘numbers’ balance issues (if done well). And each account only gets 1 so it’s not like it’s going to flood the game with grief (there’s a limit to it anyway cos u can just eventually kill the persons supercrit and send them back to re-leveling). Shrugs.

Terron
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Terron » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:59 pm

need to get them content so they can dominate. if its pks they want those are pretty easy when characters have flaws. however most of the characters used dont have flaws now. mages rape slayers in seconds so noone uses slayers. mages are scarce because theres no lizards roaming around anymore, mostly just used on dragons. characters are supposed to have flaws so they can be defeated. be it brute force/hide skill/magic whatever. just seems like skills get nerfed so brute force can win everything, and in group brute force is exploitable so we all go better then well rounded races like dark elf goblin and helf.

everyone is high mr melee because you are generally immune to casters and at nearly no disadvantage to hardcore dps races because if a horc or saurian actually shows up, people just swap to caster and slaughter it. if the horc doesnt notice beforehand and instantly swap to dark elf instead...problem 1 is way way too many characters but that isnt changing. i tried getting no swapping character changes on areas and not even a whisper. the system is like caster >melee = melee with mr > caster, the = part should go away and be changed to >.

ive played hardcore modes on games, and all too many times i just dont play that way after some stupid server crash, power outage, horrible mechanic destroys my character while im helpless. never again imo.

your idea is an option but i dont think itll draw support because of the ability to grief others.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

anthriel
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 am

Re: Instead of 25+

Postby anthriel » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:21 pm

(mainly @Terrron)

I actually think having my angelic/demonic supercrit idea will also improve the rock/paper/scissors (ie weaknesses/flaws) system. See right now say you have a Horc slayer. There is no mage in the world who can round you. It doesnt matter what equip/race/etc you have - the mage's 4 attacks and even a watcher exploding is still probably not going round a full HP Horc. And so the Horc slayer can attempt to round the mage and run if you fail. Its hardly "being destroyed" by your kryptonite/weakness... in fact the mage is the one on the defensive cos they can get rounded! This is an example where the current rock/paper/scissors (ie weaknesses system) fails.

But if the supercrits were in the game then the Horcs have to rethink. Now there is some magicuser out there that could totally round them. Anyone with a supercrit Chanter/DM could probably round them easily. And the same fear would go into all the people who play other high DPS, low MR race/class builds. This helps make the rock/paper/scissor system actually work!

And the swapping problem is managed by the fact ppl can only have 1 supercrit per account. My supercrit could be a Saurian Zerker. I could be running around smashing all your normal melee crits. Then you switch to your supercrit which happens to be a Chanter. Im screwed at this point. Cos i dont have say an equivalent Elder or whatever magekiller class supercrit to switch to. This again helps with the rock/paper/scissors by putting a limit to it. And it encourages specialisation of whatever your main/supercrit is.

So yeah i hear what you are saying, but I think having 1 supercrit per account will actually help fix what you are lamenting of (for the reasons ive mentioned).

Terron
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Instead of 25+

Postby Terron » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:47 pm

yeah man i said its an option for sure. i just am way to casual to grind 35m exp a day even if i started with max stam. also i fight 1v10 alot so theres no reason i would want to partake. the things i enjoy most on the game would get me killed regardless of supercrit status. ktps paralyze grabbed by npc as u walk by, rounded by a queuing bug. theres just too much against it for me.

it would end up feeling like you had to have a supercrit to compete vs several supercrits at a dragon fight or something. then sooner or later u die, and go back to level 1. meanwhile several of the supercrits that you kill or died in general are back the very next day, while my ass is grinding exp for a month to get it back. its an option but im not really interested.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants


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