Bard/Minstrel Mechanics

[damaji]

I like the idea of an accessory slot for a musical instrument and the ability to have a weapon equipped as well. I think with the slot empty you can't sing/play and once equipped give a bonus to song power with different tier instruments as the bard progresses. I think they should be able to attack and play at the same time or else they won't be able to survive solo if we stick with them having support spells instead of direct damage. I'm curious how hard it would be to implement a song for them to inflict a stun or daze effect on a mob because a dungeon I'm trying to write currently could use this as a weapon proc or perhaps a song scroll.

[Scare]

You should make the instrument being used generate a party stat buff. IE Drums = +1 STR, Harp = +1 WIS, ect.

Songs should keep a spell duration/effect like Belzur did.

1) Weak Combat Health Regen Song
2) A charm song similiar to /tame, but doesn't have an infinite duration
3) A light song. CAUSE I"M SCARED OF GRUES
4) Weak AoE pulse damage song
5) Weak Combat Mana Regen Song

Change Mana into Voice, and have the songs drain x amount every so often while playing the song. Run out of voice, and you can't sing. lolol (Don't allow mana regen song to regen "voice"

Make bards/minstrels thirsty after every song, and make them be thirsty twice as often as any other class.

Allow them to wear helmets but remove the ability to equip swords and staves.

[alvarlux]

2) A charm song similiar to /tame, but doesn't have an infinite duration


Make bards/minstrels thirsty after every song, and make them be thirsty twice as often as any other class.

I like the idea of a charm song - pied piper style, but would they only remain tamed while the song was active?

The thirsty thing is just so on the nose for RP that we should do it.

They need some sort of damaging ability to make them possible to level - remember we aren't doing alts now, so we have to allow to some degree solo style play. Maybe we create some weaponized instruments that are specific to the class? Axe guitar or Dagger flute

I feel like cancelling the song on attack would be overly punishing - the instrument should only really be necessary to start the song, the bard/minstrel voice would be able to continue it.

Maybe on being hit, there is a chance to disrupt/stop the song?

[thirdchris]

I think you make bards into a dual wielding class. A dagger and an instrument. Lore suggests that bards were often used as assassins, so I feel like they should definitely be able to attack. Instruments attack value should indicate the potency of the songs and the songs should generate status effects. Increased damage, increased AC, a sleep song, a tame song, the trick here is to give them songs that would actually be useful in specific situations. If you make them into a weak healing class, nobody will use it for the healing.

If they have healing, it should be party based. Make it not use their attacks to trigger, but instead they cast lifetap once a turn or something.

[Honzo]

I think you make bards into a dual wielding class. A dagger and an instrument. Lore suggests that bards were often used as assassins, so I feel like they should definitely be able to attack. Instruments attack value should indicate the potency of the songs and the songs should generate status effects. Increased damage, increased AC, a sleep song, a tame song, the trick here is to give them songs that would actually be useful in specific situations. If you make them into a weak healing class, nobody will use it for the healing.

If they have healing, it should be party based. Make it not use their attacks to trigger, but instead they cast lifetap once a turn or something.

You have some fire ideas man. I've been talking about posting on this for a while seeing as Bard is what I'm making now.

NiteHawk and I talked some and I think he decided on weapon/instrument.
Some points to note and remember:
Should be Charisma based for strength of spells.
Wisdom could be mana or (voice) like someone suggested as an alternate resource depending on how you make the songs work mechanically.
Do not make them full support or else people will not want them - Clerics heal better and have more ac, etc.
Should be a HYBRID CHARACTER- Bards are known for this! They should be able to do a little of everything..including fighting!

Suggestions:
Mage-Blade type of character..Jack of All Trades.

Keep slots as medium armor, weapon, instrument. (will go into detail later)

Songs should be usable one at a time. It makes logical sense(though I know this is a game), but by doing so you can increase the power of the songs as seen fit. I disagree with draining the mana per song though. It seems rather punishing to someone who probably isn't going to have tons of mana since they are multiple attribute dependent like PALADINS.

Let them literally do a little of everything! Bards are generally well versed in travel and knowledge as well, even if they aren't the smartest people! They hear stories/etc and pass them forward etc. How about giving the bards a special /lore ability that with enough Charisma they have a chance to figure out certain puzzles? You could add /lore in to certain squares that they are in and stuff like that. Think of them like..being able to investigate a room!

Do -not- make them unviable in pvp. Clerics at least get Ray and tons of heals and tons of armor. Make sure that bards can do comparable melee damage but not have insane the survivability of a healer.

Do they REALLY need to steal anymore? Give Rob back to thieves, don't let it take away from their class.

Instruments could be "weapons" also or like was suggested earlier instruments could "unlock" certain songs when worn or they could power up certain songs (This would be amazing for balance issues) depending on rarity/etc.

Do NOT get too complicated with Instruments. It does NOT make a sense a bard can play a lute and swing a sword at the same time. It seems more of an "extra" thing than anything. Bards SING and melee, or they play instruments and do other stuff. Logically that just seems right.

Group Songs
Song of Healing - Cost X - You begin to sing a song of tranquility, soothing the souls of your party per round. (Heal 15-40, more with instrument?)

Lament of Sadness - Cost X - You sing a song of unfortunate loss, your enemies sob emotionally. (armor reduction 5-15, can't hide, more with instrument-think AOE FaerieFire)

Lead the Charge - Cost X - You sing a song that inspires all of those around you. (Haste like party spell, half the value of regular haste - I think you said it was 2 for druids/1 for others in another post)

Sound of Silence - Cost X - You recite an ancient lullaby, passed down from ancient Tunyeran assassins. (Autosneak for your party while active, autosneak passive to get stuck in square still counts for leader)

Solo Songs Because you have to give them the ability to solo!

Song of Fury - Cost X- You chant an angry war call, infusing your weapon with magical energy. (Every 3 attacks, like Monk and Barbarian, if you hit the first 2 your 3rd attack emits a burst of (whatever divinity) dmg at x1.75 rate. Whatever is between monk and barbarian rage/RH dmg. Make it litreally in the middle of those 2 values to make it average)

Siren Song- Cost X - Your song is so alluring that you now command (insert creature, limit 1)

Wail of the Banshee - Cost X - Your terrifying wail makes the enemy reel in pain. (Deals X MAGIC damage based on divinity per round, higher number since its single target but not GODLY, resistable based on MR, acts as spell)

Don't forget - all of these could be powered up by instruments as well.

They deserve to be viable in PVP, group, AND solo.

ALSO - NO HIDDEN STATS. No songs that gives stats. It is uber boring and hidden stats and their values suck.

Hope you like some of my ideas.

[Honzo]

Oh and I forgot to add. Armor song for group seems it'd be a tad too good, but also a tad too bad for soloing. Could Instrument provide armor as well so that wearing medium armor doesnt make them cannon fodder? Or give them naturally higher dodge rates like you did for monk? Something to consider. Finding their sweet spot with survivability is going to be the hard thing.

[Lateralus]

Ive always thought of a bard as more of a group character so i like the songs and how they would work. I think a moving aoe ff is a little overpowering tho maybe just armor reduction? others sound good




Song of Fury - Cost X- You chant an angry war call, infusing your weapon with magical energy. (Every 3 attacks, like Monk and Barbarian, if you hit the first 2 your 3rd attack emits a burst of (whatever divinity) dmg at x1.75 rate. Whatever is between monk and barbarian rage/RH dmg. Make it litreally in the middle of those 2 values to make it average)

I kinda feel like the 3rd hit is a bit over used but do think they should have some sort of damage


Siren Song- Cost X - Your song is so alluring that you now command (insert creature, limit 1)

im not sure id want them to spawn creatures but maybe it would be cool if they had a spell that could "tame" a humanoid for a few mins type thing?


Wail of the Banshee - Cost X - Your terrifying wail makes the enemy reel in pain. (Deals X MAGIC damage based on divinity per round, higher number since its single target but not GODLY, resistable based on MR, acts as spell)

sound good but wouldn't want it doing too much damage.

[Honzo]

For the armor reduction song, it wasn't meant as an AOE faeriefire, more so the -armor effect it gives. That way it helps increase dmg for each PHYSICAL dmg character in the group. Thats why I kept ac low 5-15 (that adds up per person you know?)

Maybe the third hit is overused but how about something else? Every hit leading up to the 4th, you can "crescendo" in to stronger hits. So for instance, if you hit one time, you do 110, if you hit another, 150, if you hit another , 190, if you hit another 230. How about something like that?

Siren Song IS a tame song, sorry for not clarifying. Sirens typically attract people through singing right? I thought it was fitting.

Wail of the Banshee is kind of a different spell. Instead of it doing dmg per attack or anything, just ONE TIME DAMAGE PER ROUND WHICH -CAN- BE RESISTED. Just ideas to help give them dmg. So for instance, round starts: "You wail like a banshee, your scream makes the enemy reel in pain doing 160 damage" Then attack attack attack attack. Keep in mind, they have NO defense other than MEDIUM armor. Thats why I suggest the instrument ALSO give armor/other abilities.

Thanks for the input, Im starting my bard within the next day so hopefully we can get the testing going! Still looking for more!

Thanks in advance guys!

[Drasp]

I like the thoughts. Always appreciate the bard class.

I like the idea of building intensity on consecutive hits rather than the 3rd hit critical type deal. It makes a little more sense as well. The song of battle intensifies with each successful strike.

I'm not sure that I think bards should be able to tame. Torn on that issue.

I do think that they should be able to lull enemies into having their stamina replenish slower, lower AP, or a light DoT.

For party assistance, my five thoughts are:
AP Boost
light HoT
slight stamina recovery boost (but this could be OP when looking at a large group. maybe it has only a 15% chance of "inspiring" group members?)
Light mana over time
attack boost.

Aside from that, I think daggers, swords, and light armor. Bards are performers, they don't walk around in mail.