Ugliness and obesity

[NiteHawk]

Still listening on this topic but I disagree with charisma being the base on CHR or granting a bonus to healing. Healing is already for me at it's 'max'. We lowered healing recently because no one was dying in PVP combat.

Making healing charisma based to me feels weird overall for just those spells only. Perhaps there is another way to deal with charisma though, but I don't think making clerics/pallies/etc 'REQUIRE' charisma on top of the other 5 stats is a good idea though.

[Terron]

you wouldn't need to do anything. thats like saying paladins and clerics already need chr for hp/mp boost already but they do not. its optimization only. you had to lower heals in pvp because they are directly influenced by the same stat as damage spell. hence a pvp cleric will always optimize dex int and con and forgo chr regardless if heal power is moved to charisma or not. if they chose this path the heals would have been lower regardless of your nerf. let the stats do the work for you if they chose the other path they wouldn't be very optimal in pvp but be hard to kill pve and better bossers.

min/maxing is always a game mechanic that is most utilized, just don't let it remove 80% of the other game content like on every other game. every class should find all 6 statistics useful. as it sits charisma is more like a luck stat for a few hp/mp with the penalty that 96% of the characters ingame are ugly to average looking. it hasn't been optimal as a stat because nothing is coded to it. being ugly consistently is a huge deterent for me, i cant stand it. makes me only want to play half orcs and goblins. the HORDE!!!

and what about the charisma affecting MR at a decreased rate compared to Wisdom? noone has touched on that?

[Folder]

I like the idea of CHR increasing MR in some small amount. Partially just because I think casters are OP in general though.

What you're talking about makes me think of having different specs for the classes. A cleric that can spec INT and do damage, or a cleric that can spec CHR and heal more. That's not a bad idea, but it does change a lot of things about how the game works. That cleric needs to be distinct from a sorc or else it's redundant, and I assume it can still heal for SOME amount and we don't want something that can damage like a sorc and heal. Do we want respecs to be cheaper at that point too? Leveling is a big commitment and if we have distinct "specs" it sounds a bit ehhhh to have to commit to one forever.

Also, in the case of paladins, if CHR is healing then what do they do with INT? INT would be the new dump stat because as the game stands you NEED a dump stat or else your character would be shit at one role or another.

Anyways I definitely like the idea of working with CHR, it's a pretty bland stat.

[Terron]

its all in the definition of the stats. if a character with 20 str 10 agility and 20 con is doing 300 damage per round then a crit that is 10 str 20 dex and 20 con should be doing the same. the stats should offset completely. it may seem stagnant to let the constitution value for itself, but the real trick to overcoming the con factor is ability damage and luck. so incase of a paladin taking int over chr they would smite for more damage but heal less. but it will be exactly offset by the reciprocal paladin.

im not saying a cleric taking 10 chr and 20+int should heal for 0. the class should have inherent power gathered by each level gain, it just shouldn't be as powerful as a cleric that devoted 25 levels to healing if chr was the factor. and vice versa a cleric optimizing heal shouldn't be using ray/smite as efficiently. and on top of that there should be a melee variant of cleric. its a benefit to the game to offer all 3 builds and also a character that meddles in 2 or all 3 aspects. it opens up alot more options. also makes variant races that are not and will not ever be used on this game currently. wheres the half orc or saurian clerics at? it is needed because this game is endgame rather fast - couple weeks is a max character, after a year there is no reason to keep going. some of the classes may overlap and be similar with such stat variants, but variety is the spice of life and at the moment there isn't many variants its all the same builds beat to death.

i like ability damage being based off int, just seems backwards for healing only

[daedroth]

Some interesting ideas here. I think I will sit and watch though since I cannot think of anything to contribute, and I'm tired right now.


Deleted my gibberish. I will go back to sitting and watching.

[Mujahideen]

A charismatic preacher would be powerful, it makes sense.

[NiteHawk]

I like the idea of CHR increasing MR in some small amount. Partially just because I think casters are OP in general though.

What you're talking about makes me think of having different specs for the classes. A cleric that can spec INT and do damage, or a cleric that can spec CHR and heal more. That's not a bad idea, but it does change a lot of things about how the game works. That cleric needs to be distinct from a sorc or else it's redundant, and I assume it can still heal for SOME amount and we don't want something that can damage like a sorc and heal. Do we want respecs to be cheaper at that point too? Leveling is a big commitment and if we have distinct "specs" it sounds a bit ehhhh to have to commit to one forever.

Also, in the case of paladins, if CHR is healing then what do they do with INT? INT would be the new dump stat because as the game stands you NEED a dump stat or else your character would be shit at one role or another.

Anyways I definitely like the idea of working with CHR, it's a pretty bland stat.

I think though the issue then with pallies or clerics is that it becomes a nightmare to level because smite and ray will do such minimal damage that it will be odd to deal with though too.

Wisdom could help out but I mean, are you saying this as a saurian slayer, or proper MR race/class? Slayers are going to have weaknesses for example, spells are one of them. The highest MR races with a decent class will have between 60-80 MR.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Alot of people have been going big guns with low wisdom and low MR races obviously because they think they are OP but will get a quick death against magical classes.

[Terron]

what im trying to get at is that a build that is 20 20 20 20 16 10 a 20 20 20 15 16 15 and a 20 20 20 10 16 20 should all be equally viable in comparison to each other. the damage(int) user will hit a hypothetical 100 with spells while heal for 50, the middle of the road will do 75 /75 and the healer will do 50/100. in the end its your personal preference and creates a world in which min maxing is less possible because a 18 20 20 17 16 14 might be better that the previous 3 i stated but worse than a 20 20 20 10 20 15 if you catch my drift.

this opens up a far more vast character creation system to where 8/10 things you make and the entire player-base sees it and says "wtf you thinking".
w/o this set up on every class structure the game wont see any rarity builds. also w/o there is no reason to make one because the possibility that a 14 22 19 14 15 14 saurian for example, can never win at anything is off the table because it would become useful in some shape or form.

the idea is to have any combination of character class/race/stat be useful. someone could roll a complete middle of the road character like 17 21 17 17 17 17 elf and still have a good character that could edge out other builds. or we can just talk bout str/hps vs dex and mr vs spells in endless repetition. bob likes lings they should win all, corey likes horcs they should win all, darcy loves mages they should be indestructible...yep thats a yawn.

[Folder]

someone could roll a complete middle of the road character like 17 21 17 17 17 17 elf and still have a good character that could edge out other builds.

I get all that you're saying except this part. How could you possibly make a character that doesn't have max stats equivalent to a character with max stats?

[Terron]

because there are no max stat characters.

in reference to a 17 21 17 17 17 17 elf, that elf would lose in a pvp match as a knight vs an 18 22 18 x x x but at the same time as a paladin it may fair better than a 18 23 18 21 15 10 because of the mana pool or in a hypothetical event where u had to face every possible character build, it may be better overall. im not saying make 0 stats as a premium choice by any means but viable because the stats in relative areas cancel out. when its left up to you to choose a vast number of things on creation like do i want my pally to have melee power/dodge/hp/smite damage/heal(if it was chr)/large mana pool/ or an even distribution/ or a variant that fits my liking the most. opposed to min maxing all the time.

after i started my first character and logged on and joined a clan, i asked for players input on every class. there are 12 races and 12 classes. the responses i got were to use 2 or less races for each class(there was a 3 way split of a couple melee oriented classes) in light of this the seemingly 144 characters that are able to be created only 24-30 are deemed "ok" by the entire playerbase. that in itself is flawed. the players have, in other words, told me that 79 to 84% of the character build content is worthless and that only counts the min/max builds. if i was to factor in possibilities of every stat composition you're left with over 99% worthlessness.

makes me wonder why there isnt just set stats and only certain classes each race can be, oh because that's lame. so lets make reasons to use all the content