PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

[Folder]

For fairness sake I think using 23 agi for lings is better since 24 is +1.

Besides that though this isn't JUST about lings, it's any higher agi race. Was just using lings for my examples. Also for the record I'm not a fan of any 19 agi race having an awful hit rate, that's not the solution here.

[NiteHawk]

For fairness sake I think using 23 agi for lings is better since 24 is +1.

Besides that though this isn't JUST about lings, it's any higher agi race. Was just using lings for my examples. Also for the record I'm not a fan of any 19 agi race having an awful hit rate, that's not the solution here.

Yeah true my bad. 8) But basing it off the highest damage vs highest agi. Though I guess that should be considered 25 str then too.

[NiteHawk]

23 agi now.



HO DW attacking Ling with shield:
Not DW = 16.81 attacks to kill
DW = 15.26 attacks to kill.

HO DW attacking Ling with no shield:
Not DW = 15.9 attacks to kill
DW = 14 attacks to kill.

Ling attacking HO with shield:
Not DW = 20.35 attacks to kill
DW = 18.65 attacks to kill

Ling attacking HO without shield:
Not DW = 19 attacks to kill
DW = 17.4 attacks to kill


Even bigger differ, one round on average more, and even at the highest variables, (lets say two non DW'ing characters... the HO would be something like 12.8-20.8, to lings 18.35-22.35 type deal.) I can obviously see why Lings (or lower agi chars) would never win in alot of cases.

[NiteHawk]

This is current HP formula: (END-7)*3*LVL*ClassBonus (for reference)

So this is my new test:

Per AGI = 2.75% instead of 2.0%
New HP formula = (END+1)*2*LVL*ClassBonus

HO HP 23 END: 1320HP
LING HP 17 END: 990HP


HO DW attacking Ling with shield:
Not DW = 20.01 attacks to kill
DW = 18.27 attacks to kill.

HO DW attacking Ling with no shield:
Not DW = 18.35 attacks to kill
DW = 17.55 attacks to kill.


Ling attacking HO with shield:
Not DW = 19.15 attacks to kill
DW = 17.55 attacks to kill

Ling attacking HO without shield:
Not DW = 17.88 attacks to kill
DW = 16.4 attacks to kill


----

In this scenario lings look a little better. However, HO obviously have the random chance. It will again, look more like this:

HO DW attacking Ling with shield:
Not DW = 16.01-24.01 attacks to kill
DW = 14.27-22.27 attacks to kill.

HO DW attacking Ling with no shield:
Not DW = 14.35-22.35 attacks to kill
DW = 13.55-21.55 attacks to kill.


Ling attacking HO with shield:
Not DW = 17.15-21.15 attacks to kill
DW = 15.55-19.55 attacks to kill

Ling attacking HO without shield:
Not DW = 15.88-19.88 attacks to kill
DW = 14.4-18.4 attacks to kill

----

This means that in some cases, because of high random and high damage, you will win.. Or you pick a less random race (like lings) and don't do those 'extreme's but instead are more 'safe'. Lings will be the better 'average' while HO's would be better at 'WTF moments'. Once this is actually sorted we might want to look at time to kill on average but that's another topic. Changing that as a whole doesn't effect the AGI rates or anything. Should be OK I think as it is though..


If the above is too much then 2.5% brings it the other way where HO's are a little better but I feel that higher AGI should be more reliable while lower AGI high STR should be random. 2.6% brings them to be the 'same' though, which could work.

P.S. The charisma bonus is added per level away from this formula based on the other post I made. But ignored for now.

[Folder]

I like where we are headed now. Orcs should have the edge in melee over a ling, mathematically speaking. I don't think we want them to be directly equal because, well yeah, orcs are melee ONLY. They should be a bit scarier than weaker races, I just think it was disproportionate.

Those last numbers make them very equal it seems like? Maybe favor it back towards the orc/dwarf/whatever a little more?

[NiteHawk]

2.3% per AGI then?

But 2.3% puts them a little higher then.

HO DW attacking Ling with shield:
Not DW = 18.84 attacks to kill
DW = 17.21 attacks to kill.

HO DW attacking Ling with no shield:
Not DW = 17.27 attacks to kill
DW = 16.53 attacks to kill.


Ling attacking HO with shield:
Not DW = 19.85 attacks to kill
DW = 18.19 attacks to kill

Ling attacking HO without shield:
Not DW = 18.54 attacks to kill
DW = 16.99 attacks to kill


Overall seems better, You got to remember though that half orcs will sometimes get those better hits and kill the ling fast, or not at all. It's a chance and all that, even though the average is XX, the actual min/max rounds is larger for HOs.

[daedroth]

Out of curiosity. If there is going to be drastic changes to the END/AGL/STR formulas, will there be another free stat respec?

[NiteHawk]

Out of curiosity. If there is going to be drastic changes to the END/AGL/STR formulas, will there be another free stat respec?

This really isnt' a drastic change, so no.

END HP modifies automatically. I highly doubt anyone would modify their END because of this. STR isn't being changed overall that would matter.

[Styx]

Pally suck, I have yet to see a 200 hit with div so how you basing damage with 200 and I do have a dwaf. 21 str 20 agi, I should have human hit rate at least

Btw a pally can't fight and heal then finish the fight as easy as you think in pve cause I tried that and got owned.

You need to rethink strategy

Orc berserker I've seen just do multiple flurry until it dies? And pally can't hit the side of a barn?

Maybe that's why they just make orc zerkers now?

[NiteHawk]

Pally suck, I have yet to see a 200 hit with div so how you basing damage with 200 and I do have a dwaf. 21 str 20 agi, I should have human hit rate at least

Btw a pally can't fight and heal then finish the fight as easy as you think in pve cause I tried that and got owned.

You need to rethink strategy

Orc berserker I've seen just do multiple flurry until it dies? And pally can't hit the side of a barn?

Maybe that's why they just make orc zerkers now?

Pallies with a OAD weapon, which the best one isn't out yet, would do 151-203, so yeah under 200. A zerker with 21 str would do 176-237.

Zerkers can do three in a row and it resets.

Pally/etc all have the same hit rate modifier. zerkers do have a dodge rate negative though.


I do think zerkers and cavaliers have too high of a damage modifier though. Mainly because they will be often using higher STR classes and they get a large bonus as it is.