PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

[NiteHawk]

This is current with 21 STR if OAD weapons were here:
Knight:171-231
Assassins BS: 656 with DW.
Barb: 176-237 DW MAX: 261
Pally: 151-203

25 STR (HO +1):
Knight:203-274
Assassins BS: 781 with DW.
Barb: 209-283 DW MAX: 311
Pally:179-242 (obviously a HO pally is eh)


This is also a slight issue. Obviously they cannot heal but they can pick the high STR races with no issues.
Might be better if it was:

Knight:163-220
Assassins BS: 635 with DW.
Barb: 166-224 DW MAX: 246
Pally: 151-203

25 STR (HO +1):
Knight:194-262
Assassins BS: 756 with DW.
Barb: 197-266 DW MAX: 293
Pally:179-242 (obviously a HO pally again)


The only race I could see that needs modifying after this is druids, which would get somewhere between pally/knight. Remember that barbs get the rage bonus too.

Says?

[Folder]

This is current with 21 STR if OAD weapons were here:
Knight:171-231
Assassins BS: 656 with DW.
Barb: 176-237 DW MAX: 261
Pally: 151-203

25 STR (HO +1):
Knight:203-274
Assassins BS: 781 with DW.
Barb: 209-283 DW MAX: 311
Pally:179-242 (obviously a HO pally is eh)


This is also a slight issue. Obviously they cannot heal but they can pick the high STR races with no issues.
Might be better if it was:

Knight:163-220
Assassins BS: 635 with DW.
Barb: 166-224 DW MAX: 246
Pally: 151-203

25 STR (HO +1):
Knight:194-262
Assassins BS: 756 with DW.
Barb: 197-266 DW MAX: 293
Pally:179-242 (obviously a HO pally again)


The only race I could see that needs modifying after this is druids, which would get somewhere between pally/knight. Remember that barbs get the rage bonus too.

Says?

In my experience so far, yeah pally damage is lower but I think it's fine. They have so much more utility than the others and their defense is way higher. I feel the damage tradeoff is fair. IMO if pallys were to do more damage we'd let them use 2H, but we've had that discussion before. As is they are tankier and do lower damage, it doesn't feel bad to me.

Not sure on druids, I have no experience myself beyond lv23. Fighting them they do not seem very strong, but that's not great input.

edit: imma beat this to death. I'll say this forever and ever lol, guards being penalized for guarding is bleh. They don't feel strong and I'd guess more people don't use them because of this. It's not their damage output, it's the fact that when you guard you take more damage so it creates this weird situation where you don't really want to guard so often. I feel it every time I take my guard out to pvp or do a boss, and it doesn't feel good. My guard is benched most of the time because of this, not the damage or heal output.

[NiteHawk]

Knights/Barbs damage was based on knights having nothing before hand and barbs having negative agi. Both are different now and I think they are both useful. Both often are in higher str races, so you'll always output more DPS. The DPS is far to high on them, so a little nerf would help balance things out now that everythings more balanced/sorted.

Druids actually are OK, based on the fact that they don't start off with 24-25 STR too, so ends up being okay, not touching them. The biggest two are knights/barbs, and then slayers getting a slight nerf too but very minimal.

My final values are:

STR 21:
Pallies: 151-203 (Same, just here for comparison)
Knight 161-217 *will be able to use two handers that will boost around 5% in future but have unique things*
Barb: 163-220, DW 179-247 Max
Assassin: 406-565 BS, DW 447-621 Max

STR 25:
Pallies: 179-242 (Obv half orc pallies arent' a thing)
Knight 191-258
Barb: 194-262, DW 213-289 Max
Assassin: 484-672 BS, DW 532-740 Max


These changes along with the other changes should hopefully balance out the races a little more, while zerkers/assassins still lead the DPS group, its not by the huge gap that it shouldn't be currently. (well assassins still hurt like hell though.. 8))

Pallies /guard, I still don't know. Maybe the AGI nerf can be removed but it than be aimed towards magic still doing a little more piercing as it is now.

[Folder]

Where are druids and ninjas on there, out of curiosity?

We really need some more lvl25 weapons ingame, it hurts some classes pretty bad..like druids.

[NiteHawk]

Where are druids and ninjas on there, out of curiosity?

We really need some more lvl25 weapons ingame, it hurts some classes pretty bad..like druids.

A druid with 41 str which is average I'd think would be at 163-229.. This was changed though recently. It was about -8 damage less before but I put them in the middle now.


Ninjas
21 STR: 151-181
25 STR: 179-215

[Folder]

Dang ninjas seem pretty low on there. I realize RH has its place to balance that out but not sure it actually makes up the difference in practice.

Ehhh sorry, derailing.

[NiteHawk]

Dang ninjas seem pretty low on there. I realize RH has its place to balance that out but not sure it actually makes up the difference in practice.

Ehhh sorry, derailing.

x5 hits.
If you were to equate it with others even without RH

Ninja
215x5=1075

Knight
242x4=968

Obviously you 'have' to hit more so it's a little harder, but the damage to me is enough. The values generally had nothing to do with RH.

[Folder]

True, fair enough.

[NiteHawk]

So far:

-Minor tweaks to damage on some classes.
-Tweaks to HP formula (more HP on less END)
-Dodge is 2.3% instead of 2.0%
-/protect has no AGI nerf, but still has a magic nerf (atm)
-/track takes no turns.
-Minor changes to smite (already IG)
-Div bonus starts at 10%, max is 15%.

[Thi]

Well, shouldn't Guardians and Cavaliers have a similar damage range since they serve similar purposes with one being pvp oriented and the other pve oriented?

I feel cavaliers are too strong right now because they provide a lot of utility with Taunt and Shield Bash, plus HP bonus and still do VERY good damage.