Drop Stealing

[Yue]

Taking into account previous arguments etc, perhaps a good solution would be to diversify the benefits/drops of a worldboss and make the worldboss recurring so the benefits can be cumulatively experienced....

For example, there is an arcane blacksmith NPC somewhere that can make a 'crimson blade' or 'crimson armor' etc out of say 70 'crimson scales'... then the crimson dragon drops X number of 'crimson scales' each time it lands and is attacked successfully (these can be dropstolen and will drop 100% of time if holder is killed)... and the total number of scales dropped b4 worldboss dies is say 100 (meaning effectively one item per worldboss spawn, but consolation 30 scales for ppl who put work in so they could still cash in next time it spawns).

A system like this could:
1. preserve the PVP competition element and the motivation to hit the worldboss even if it isnt on critical hp
2. continue to reward/incentivize people to participate in attacking it - because even if you don't reach the 70 scales to craft the weapon this time, you and your guild can still get something out of it to work towards complete your weapon/armor next time.
3. allow minor guilds or individual players the incentive to sill participate (eg if Guild A holds 60 scales, Guild B holds 30 scales, Guild C holds 8 scales and Individual D holds 2 scales... then there is economy for Guild A to offer gold etc to Guild C / Individual D to buy scales... or alternatively Guild C / Individual D could just hold their scales and work their way up to 70 over multiple spawnings)

The above numbers/scaling of drops etc are just for example... Am pretty new to EO but just thought id throw in a few thoughts that seem to me could result in more happy players without killing the PVP competitiveness or economy of the game. Basically the suggested idea is one where more people can experience fulfillment for their work in attacking a worldboss by sharing in a more diversified benefit than just a single item drop (and players feeling 'fulfilment' is essential to attracting and retaining playerbase)... Anyhoo... just my initial 2 cents... will defer to others to point out whether such an idea has large shortcomings.

I was going to post something very similar to this.

Or you could just leave Crimson Dragon as is, but just add more world bosses that follow this and other mechanics.

Dropstealing does have problems. It's a dynamic that should stay, but not all world/event drops need to be determined by drop stealing. A number of players are at disadvantage with drop stealing due to several factors, only these coming to mind currently:

• Latency: Some people will have more lag than others. Some people live in other countries/continents. Some people just have shitty connections due to monetary factors or even availability. So it very well may happen that when you see an item drop, someone already grabbed it due to the amount of lag.
• Disabilities: Might not be so much the case if you know what's going to drop, but if you don't know what's going to drop then there is no way to macro, and if you somehow have some limited mobility you will be at disadvantage.

Just mix and match it. Dragon is fun and exciting, make other different colored dragons (or other mobs) that offer different rewards. Some can be awarded on KS (We had this dynamic on Kaos too, staff would see who would get the KS), some can use the scale system as described above, some can use most damage done, most spells casted... even more heals/support spells casted for those supportive classes.

We could also have a dynamic of small dragons/monsters/whatever that could take 15-20 mins to kill, spawn randomly and drop a couple of 'shells' as well, and have you gather a given amount in order to craft something. This could also give the sense of 'I accomplished something today' rather than wait for a whole month to kill a dragon.

I think the main problem isn't the fact that the DS dynamic exists, but that pretty much one of the only late game activities to do is dragon. If we had a combination of other things to do, other loot and other rewarding way (that will also demand work, mind you) then everyone will be happy(ier)

[Kismet]

I like how Yue point out the plight of those disadvantaged with disability. It is a first I've seen of this community.

[daedroth]

Ok so rough ideas so far...

So people hitting it should get something... based on damage or just hitting?

There should be a drop when it dies.

How about a random drop each time it gets to x amount of damage, say every x amount of k damage it drops something (wirth regards to the dragon, it could be scales, teeth, claws, bone splinter, sinew?).

No actual items, just crafting ingredients (this may actually be turned into a good gold sink - coz seriously what use has gold right now?)
Then there would be the delicate issue of making the drops not too excessive and not too light
Could even have quests to find schematics/other ingredients/crafter.

Also something that makes the use of priests etc actually needed would be nice... I cant think of anything other than an AoE damage.

[NiteHawk]

Yes the swords needs balancing to be sure, it's not being used currently but it's obviously OP. I do think it's a good thing to have rare powerful items with unique abilities, but this one is likely too much.

The staff doesn't feel bad though, seems in line to me. No idea about the other drops.

I wanted the first one to be a little better then a regular OAD with a unique ability in any case. But yeah, they are all a bit OP and need fixing.

I think the main problem isn't the fact that the DS dynamic exists, but that pretty much one of the only late game activities to do is dragon. If we had a combination of other things to do, other loot and other rewarding way (that will also demand work, mind you) then everyone will be happy(ier)

I disagree with this statement. We could have 5 world bosses and if they get drop stolen all the time people will freak out about it, regardless. I think the best idea is to have several 'same' drops that allows more people a chance to get items. Maybe there should be a 0.5 second delay per item pickup too, something small enough to remove one person grabbing everything. Another option would be that the dragon does a death emotion and then dies after a few seconds instead so everyone has time to macro the get key to grab the items.

I.E: Crimson Dragon starts a emote that he is staggering/about to die and drops to the ground. 2 seconds later he dies, his items drop then.

So a prepared 'get'. This could be an alternative for all boss mobs to be honest, it needs some coding though. Hopefully will get back to the smaller stuff soon though.

In terms of other dragons, it's in the works. Crimson Dragon was the first, there was going to be a Crystal Dragon next. Ice weapons. One for each div.

Disabilities: Might not be so much the case if you know what's going to drop, but if you don't know what's going to drop then there is no way to macro, and if you somehow have some limited mobility you will be at disadvantage.

I agree with this but you can't really have a mob dropping 100 different items. We don't need another mess of a crafting system like ROK had. In the end theres only going to be a certain amount of items. I'm not sure exactly what we could do here so its not annoying but it could drop 3-5 items that do the same. I.E: scales that have different names but are ultimately the same thing. But the main name would be crimson scale, But you'd do something like 'Shiny Crimson Scale', 'Crimson Scale', 'Gleaming Crimson Scale'. Ultimately again, doing the same thing. Don't know if this is even needed though if everyone knows when the monster is going to die and can get ready to spam.

[daedroth]

BTW. If there was crafting or using this as crafting, you do not necessarily need to make new items, you could use pre-existing items and modify the descriptions.

Dread fang:
The dagger is actually just a large dreadbeast fang. The fang itself is about 10 inches long and as sharp as a razor. Dread Fang glows brilliantly and is blessed with earth, ice, fire, night and lightning. This item has a average power of 26.5. This item is classified as a dagger weapon and has a level restriction of 25+. This item can be equipped by your class.

This dagger is made from a large fang of a ferocious creature. The fang itself is about 10 inches long and as sharp as a razor. Dread Fang glows brilliantly and is blessed with earth, ice, fire, night and lightning. This item has a average power of 26.5. This item is classified as a dagger weapon and has a level restriction of 25+. This item can be equipped by your class.


Bone Shield:
The bone shield is actually just the rib cage of the fallen. Bone Shield glows brilliantly. This item has an armor value of 13. This item is classified as a shield and has a level restriction of 20+. This item can be equipped by your class.

The bone shield is made from the bones of fallen enemies. Bone Shield glows brilliantly. This item has an armor value of 13. This item is classified as a shield and has a level restriction of 20+. This item can be equipped by your class.

Etc.

Could even use this format so that different creatures could drop the same item, without the need for making new items.

[Eld]

I'm liking Anthriel's/Yue's ideas of having the world walkers drop crafting materials, the description should be clear enough that a newb knows how valuable this material is.

Yue also makes a good point about some people, either through disability, lack of quick typing, or poor internet connection are at an inherent disadvantage when it comes to picking stuff up in the current system.

How about a system where some drop to the floor to allow the chance for conflict/quick grabby hands/etc. but some get put in people's inventories?
Maybe RNGesus would grant random people who are attacking it a chance to have one land in someone's inventory.

There could even be a publically announced message in red text along the lines of:
"A scale has fallen from the Crimson Dragon and landed in *Eld's* hands, he is temporarily stunned by the sheer force."
They could then be paralysed for 15 seconds and it could be a funny moment where everyone potentially turns and tries to kill the person who has just gotten a scale and their clan mates or whoever try and defend them.


There's some great suggestions in this thread and it's nice there's a decent discussion going on about this.

[Folder]

Well 15 seconds is a long time but I kinda like that idea.

Some cool ideas here and I mostly like them, but remember if -everyone- is special then -no one- is special. The playing field is not supposed to be 100% flat, else the game will become boring.

[Eld]

Well 15 seconds is a long time but I kinda like that idea.

Some cool ideas here and I mostly like them, but remember if -everyone- is special then -no one- is special. The playing field is not supposed to be 100% flat, else the game will become boring.

I think 15 seconds has the potential to be too short rather than too long.
In that 15 seconds you'll have people still being EXH, and still only just realising what's happened.

I doubt you'd get many kills in that 15 seconds.

[JadeFalcon]

And now, for something completely different.

Two rules:
- After the Crimson Dragon dies, the square in it is "locked" for 30 or more seconds. No one can enter it, or leave it.
- The Crimson item ALWAYS drops from inventory
Meaning that if someone did drop steal, he would still have to fight the other people on the square to get out.
This should be easy for NH to implement.

For example, in the situation of 10 Defiance and 1 Silh fighting the Dragon:
- Defiance makes lots of damage, but either the Silh guy gets the KS, or outright dropsteals the item
- The 10 Defiance now have the option to murder the Silh guy. The Silh guy cannot flee. He also cannot get help. If he D/C, he will still die.

I think this is a very simple mechanic that stops:
- "unfair" dropstealing by someone that just macro's stuff and runs away
- "lucky" shots, where you arrive and take the last shot, and think stuff is yours: Well, if you are alone, it is. If you aren't.. have a "discussion" with the rest of the folks with you, at the square


Edit: "he will still die"

[Yue]

I disagree with this statement. We could have 5 world bosses and if they get drop stolen all the time people will freak out about it, regardless. I think the best idea is to have several 'same' drops that allows more people a chance to get items. Maybe there should be a 0.5 second delay per item pickup too, something small enough to remove one person grabbing everything. Another option would be that the dragon does a death emotion and then dies after a few seconds instead so everyone has time to macro the get key to grab the items.

This is why you have different mechanics for each of the world bosses. Or have the main item spawn, but maybe also do the daily younglings/small dragons that drops scales, or just make an entire different set of world bosses that work in a different way.

I agree with this but you can't really have a mob dropping 100 different items. We don't need another mess of a crafting system like ROK had. In the end theres only going to be a certain amount of items. I'm not sure exactly what we could do here so its not annoying but it could drop 3-5 items that do the same. I.E: scales that have different names but are ultimately the same thing. But the main name would be crimson scale, But you'd do something like 'Shiny Crimson Scale', 'Crimson Scale', 'Gleaming Crimson Scale'. Ultimately again, doing the same thing. Don't know if this is even needed though if everyone knows when the monster is going to die and can get ready to spam.

Do you mean 100 different instances of an item or 100 different types of items?

It is different though because we're talking 1-2 month's effort for ONE item vs a day item/two items that can sparkle the economy a bit and can allow clans to fairly distribute among them due to effort and those things.

For scales that could be 'Dragon Scale' and period, could work to craft any of the dragon items.

Off Topic: 5 World Dragons one of each div kind of reminds me of the 5 dragons in Record of Lodoss Wars. That kind of hints at a great potential to write some lore or a history between each dragon and if we ever get an academia (Do we have an academia yet?) then that might be something to look forward to.