Race Stat Changes

[Eld]

How about +1 str for DEs (or even +2 str)

Or some sort of racial trait
something to do with extra hiding or extra sneaking

extra 0.5% chance to dodge?
extra ac?
1% chance to perform a critical strike?

[NiteHawk]

How about +1 str for DEs (or even +2 str)

Or some sort of racial trait
something to do with extra hiding or extra sneaking

extra 0.5% chance to dodge?
extra ac?
1% chance to perform a critical strike?

+1 str makes it a pretty OPish saurian with MR. Prob bad idear. Extra AC maybe. Depends on what we doing with them.

[NiteHawk]

Am a fan of this for DE: 20 22 19 18 19 16

I don't think WIS needs to go down much, if at all really. It's just the INT that is making them the superior choice for priests that is the issue. You could even 20 22 19 17 20 16 to ensure their healing isn't over the top but they still have solid MR (logically they should have solid MR as they are a fighter race with "only" 20 str).

edit: as far as CHR I don't see people using them for rangers unless CHR is at 20 or above, and that's a pretty sizable bump. My cav is 10 CHR, it's not exactly required for them.

Just pointing tis out: Problem with this is:

19 22 20 17 17 14

for -1 str you get 1 end. Making it not really different so much cause Wisdom is about the same with the MR bonus.

Honestly without bumping everything END wise Des probably should keep same stats but maybe some sort of bonus. That or it needs to be something like 20/22/19/18/20/16 but that still makes them pretty good overall, though with some magic tweaks would prob be better to go with a 20int+ race. thing is when you look at HEs its 19 21 19 20 20 21 vs 20/22/19/18/20/16 and I think for only two INT difference you get alot more meaning there is 0 reason to make a HE in most cases now, as guardians/etc are probably better with DEs. We might wanna focus instead on racial bonuses on this one. Generally this is why option #10 worked better in terms of keeping the HP more in check because you cant just modify DEs without it hurting others, meaning you need to bump up HEs. If you bump up HEs, you need to bump up elves and humans. its finkay. Option #10 has it issues too though.

[Lateralus]

Am a fan of this for DE: 20 22 19 18 19 16

I don't think WIS needs to go down much, if at all really. It's just the INT that is making them the superior choice for priests that is the issue. You could even 20 22 19 17 20 16 to ensure their healing isn't over the top but they still have solid MR (logically they should have solid MR as they are a fighter race with "only" 20 str).

edit: as far as CHR I don't see people using them for rangers unless CHR is at 20 or above, and that's a pretty sizable bump. My cav is 10 CHR, it's not exactly required for them.

Just pointing tis out: Problem with this is:

19 22 20 17 17 14

for -1 str you get 1 end. Making it not really different so much cause Wisdom is about the same with the MR bonus.

Honestly without bumping everything END wise Des probably should keep same stats but maybe some sort of bonus. That or it needs to be something like 20/22/19/18/20/16 but that still makes them pretty good overall, though with some magic tweaks would prob be better to go with a 20int+ race. thing is when you look at HEs its 19 21 19 20 20 21 vs 20/22/19/18/20/16 and I think for only two INT difference you get alot more meaning there is 0 reason to make a HE in most cases now, as guardians/etc are probably better with DEs. We might wanna focus instead on racial bonuses on this one. Generally this is why option #10 worked better in terms of keeping the HP more in check because you cant just modify DEs without it hurting others, meaning you need to bump up HEs. If you bump up HEs, you need to bump up elves and humans. its finkay. Option #10 has it issues too though.

Yea I think just keeping them the same is the most simple solution. You wont have people complaining because they have to change their sorc/necros/druids if there is an int nerf either.

Leave them at 18end and maybe give them a pool point or 2 or some kinda minor racial? DE really are not in a bad place I own a few and they do ok at melee and healers. I think if we can get this last race figured out we are very close to having this done and things set hopefully.

[Folder]

Am a fan of this for DE: 20 22 19 18 19 16

I don't think WIS needs to go down much, if at all really. It's just the INT that is making them the superior choice for priests that is the issue. You could even 20 22 19 17 20 16 to ensure their healing isn't over the top but they still have solid MR (logically they should have solid MR as they are a fighter race with "only" 20 str).

edit: as far as CHR I don't see people using them for rangers unless CHR is at 20 or above, and that's a pretty sizable bump. My cav is 10 CHR, it's not exactly required for them.

Just pointing tis out: Problem with this is:

19 22 20 17 17 14

for -1 str you get 1 end. Making it not really different so much cause Wisdom is about the same with the MR bonus.

Honestly without bumping everything END wise Des probably should keep same stats but maybe some sort of bonus. That or it needs to be something like 20/22/19/18/20/16 but that still makes them pretty good overall, though with some magic tweaks would prob be better to go with a 20int+ race. thing is when you look at HEs its 19 21 19 20 20 21 vs 20/22/19/18/20/16 and I think for only two INT difference you get alot more meaning there is 0 reason to make a HE in most cases now, as guardians/etc are probably better with DEs. We might wanna focus instead on racial bonuses on this one. Generally this is why option #10 worked better in terms of keeping the HP more in check because you cant just modify DEs without it hurting others, meaning you need to bump up HEs. If you bump up HEs, you need to bump up elves and humans. its finkay. Option #10 has it issues too though.

I could be the minority but I actually think 1 str and 1 end are very competitive stats. There is definitely a decision to be made between them, especially on classes with damage multipliers. I think it's fine to keep them at 18 end and consider a racial bonus (but what bonus lol?), I just didn't want to see them overshadow other 20 int races as casters.

and offtopic really but 10 CHR on a knight is really pretty fine if the base is 7.5%. Dumping 6-10+ points to get 7.5% DR is a no no imo. Fite me Chris.

[Styx]

Elf has int, dark elf does not, take the hit on int on dark elf so we can continue , giving dark elf a DE entry chance at becoming a melee class

[NiteHawk]

Am a fan of this for DE: 20 22 19 18 19 16

I don't think WIS needs to go down much, if at all really. It's just the INT that is making them the superior choice for priests that is the issue. You could even 20 22 19 17 20 16 to ensure their healing isn't over the top but they still have solid MR (logically they should have solid MR as they are a fighter race with "only" 20 str).

edit: as far as CHR I don't see people using them for rangers unless CHR is at 20 or above, and that's a pretty sizable bump. My cav is 10 CHR, it's not exactly required for them.

Just pointing tis out: Problem with this is:

19 22 20 17 17 14

for -1 str you get 1 end. Making it not really different so much cause Wisdom is about the same with the MR bonus.

Honestly without bumping everything END wise Des probably should keep same stats but maybe some sort of bonus. That or it needs to be something like 20/22/19/18/20/16 but that still makes them pretty good overall, though with some magic tweaks would prob be better to go with a 20int+ race. thing is when you look at HEs its 19 21 19 20 20 21 vs 20/22/19/18/20/16 and I think for only two INT difference you get alot more meaning there is 0 reason to make a HE in most cases now, as guardians/etc are probably better with DEs. We might wanna focus instead on racial bonuses on this one. Generally this is why option #10 worked better in terms of keeping the HP more in check because you cant just modify DEs without it hurting others, meaning you need to bump up HEs. If you bump up HEs, you need to bump up elves and humans. its finkay. Option #10 has it issues too though.

I could be the minority but I actually think 1 str and 1 end are very competitive stats. There is definitely a decision to be made between them, especially on classes with damage multipliers. I think it's fine to keep them at 18 end and consider a racial bonus (but what bonus lol?), I just didn't want to see them overshadow other 20 int races as casters.

and offtopic really but 10 CHR on a knight is really pretty fine if the base is 7.5%. Dumping 6-10+ points to get 7.5% DR is a no no imo. Fite me Chris.

It's kinda based on if you wanna tank or not. In PVE though it might work better in the near future giving more bonuses in PVE. Don't think in PVP it should go higher unless it starts alot lower. lets say only 2.5% and goes up to 15% or something making it more useful. 15% is quite alot for PVP reasons. In PVE I could see double.

For the DEs they could do with maybe armor or something to differate themselves a little. 4 armor for example to start.

Unfort I think giving DE's +1 end makes other races completely worthless and you need to balance the whole lot. It's an issue IMO and without boosting those races too I don't think DE's should get that.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Based on the bonuses now take a look and see what people think and feel about what they should get with current bonuses.

[Styx]

Will there be a 21 end race. I've seen it brought up about humans being possibly 21 end. This would give a wider spectrum of possible end choices

[Lateralus]

Yea I think they are fine with an extra pool and or a bonus. I wish we could give them something other than armor since 2 other races already get that but not sure what to give?

I know we don't wanna give them more power as a healer so less Fiz is prob out.

Maybe 1-2 hit rate or dodge rate although I know you'd just rather have agi act.

1% crit sounds messy when dealing with other crit stuff

Could do like a 2-4 physical damage reduction like dwarf have spell reduction of 10. That kinda makes healers better tho.

Could do like at night or underground 2% more damage.

Could just give them that extra 1 pool stat and bump their chr up to 18 allowing them to stack higher chr hp / mp bonus and make knights a bit better and a long shot ranger.

Maybe more hp recovery like suggested.

Maybe a search and hide bonus?



Just some ideas to work with.

[Dan]

About INT mattering more for healing, i thought there should be a minimum number to get decent healer, like we have with CHR vs Pet stats for rangers.

It could not exactly be those numbers, but should be enough to fighting races sacrifice some physical to be able to heal.

Like this (INT/amount of healing):

14 = 30%
15 = 55%
16 = 70%
17 = 85%
18 = 100%
19 = 104%
20 = 108%
21 = 112%
22 = 116%

Regarding Dark Elves, 19 END i think is fine, i don't see a reason to give them AC (like are they hard skinned?), maybe a small dodge bonus would be nice.

And humans definetly need some love, i would give them 21 END and another 1-2 alloc points. They should be that versatile. Maybe give HE 1 more alloc point too.