New Guild and Boss Systems.

Rodeo
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Rodeo » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:41 am

This is like dejavu. Introduction of the deathmage and minstrel class in rok. Level 25+ content what’s that gonna add extra hp and mp? Gonna redesign the game so it’s made to level up skills/spells after level 25 so it will scale with HP/MP and damge increases? The biggest downfall with trying to improve this game is a backwards way of thinking of ones self and progression when forgetting the overall future of the game. Nothing stopping anyone from reaching out to some of the more popular mud games out there and asking them what has kept them going aside from maybe pride issues.

DnD 5th edition I am in no way trying to put anyone down or to insult anyone but I think actually reading these books would help the game/builder understand more about game balance. More to a game that a nice script.

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/BookIndex

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Lateralus
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Lateralus » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:42 am

Rodeo wrote:This is like dejavu. Introduction of the deathmage and minstrel class in rok. Level 25+ content what’s that gonna add extra hp and mp? Gonna redesign the game so it’s made to level up skills/spells after level 25 so it will scale with HP/MP and damge increases? The biggest downfall with trying to improve this game is a backwards way of thinking of ones self and progression when forgetting the overall future of the game. Nothing stopping anyone from reaching out to some of the more popular mud games out there and asking them what has kept them going aside from maybe pride issues.

DnD 5th edition I am in no way trying to put anyone down or to insult anyone but I think actually reading these books would help the game/builder understand more about game balance. More to a game that a nice script.

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/BookIndex



Glad you agree and remember how dm and zerker effected the playerbase that’s what we are hoping to see here as well. Far as I remember there were hundreds on and it really was refreshing for the game lots of players returned and it not only allowed people to level those new classes but changed the whole meta and other classes around those were leveled. Far as I remember numbers were up months and maybe even years after that it was a very big deal almost like an expansion. Also if you remember how zerkers and pacifist were added to nightmist it was a huge boost for that game as well.

Ideally we would start with 1 class and maybe a race here and go from there not saying it’s all we would need to do but a new class a year to refresh meta instead of hard changes to current classes would go a very very long way. We are able to shuffle meta without changing anyone’s fav class and so on.

As for 25+ not sure what that would entail. That is a much bigger project. Not sure on hawks ideas. Could there be leveling up of skills? Maybe although that gets complicated to balance pretty quick but maybe it would work 25+ idk. Again have not talked a ton about that but I do have something in mind for a new class and have shared it with hawk and other staff. Not to speak for him but I do believe it’s something somewhere on the list.

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daedroth
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby daedroth » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:56 am

I think level 25+ should be perks/feats whatever you want to consider them. Like I said though, more of them than you can choose, so many games you can look at for ideas, fallout/DnD spring to mind. way different games, but decent ideas for perks.

DnD... im so so with that game. So many things I don't like about it, but with friends it is simple enough and fun, and I think some of the ideas in DnD would work here.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Rodeo
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Rodeo » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:20 pm

Rok numbers...depends on when and how’ve many alts each player had 3 alts x 100= 300 players and I know for a fact that I could obtain 6 online with a proxy. NM the numbers could be similar. Short term goals short term success. 25+ skill trees? Put points into stealth and backstab to make them more powerful?

Rodeo
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Rodeo » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:20 pm

You get what I am saying tho.

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Hanibal
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Hanibal » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:31 pm

Instead of adding stuff why not look at the current issues and fix those?

I suggested alts because it would fix the having to be in a big guild to do anything, level, do keys etc.

Now people will argue if you can log alts so can those people in big guilds, then add a room lock so only X amount of members from one guild can enter a key or boss room, you could still have those fights at bosses because when one member from a guild dies another would be able to enter or you may even have multiple battles going on in different places with people trying to get there.

If people were able to log on 1 maybe two alts a clan with 3 people could basically do anything a guild of 10 could do also that guild of 10 would probably drop with numbers because most of those people are only in there so they can better their gear. This is the only reason one super guild dies and another is born the same day.

Im not saying this will be a fix all but it might fix one major problem this game has had since day one.
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Terron
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:41 pm

maybe the races arent balanced to begin with. why is everyone a goblin and dark elf? saurian kills you in 6 hits dark elf kills you in 6 hits maybe 7 if the previous 6 hit lowest range. goblin kills you in 6 hits, 7 if half of the hits are low range. dark elf gets 40 mr for free, goblin gets 30+ mr and free -10% negation for free. everyone is a dark elf and goblin. hmmm broken.

maybe stat ranges of 15 points maximum, cant be balanced. maybe this is why most games dont have stats like that anymore and do all advancement through skill trees and perks. generally speaking, adding a class or new race wont do much other than pile broken(if its viable alternative to goblin/dark elf) or junk (if its not) on top of an imbalanced system. same for class really. new class either slaughters 1v1 and is everywhere or it doesnt and wont get used, aside from pride boredom or gotta collect em all type deal.

this playerbase is obviously just done with additions that dont fix anything. atleast thats the general feel and opinions i receive ingame.
id love new classes, races, and content to, so dont take this as a negative. but we need some things balanced. oads/guilds being the top systems people dislike.

EDIT: if you notice what i posted above. i specifically stated "NO" damage increases for 25+. this isnt the first rodeo ive been to.
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Rodeo
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Rodeo » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:52 pm

I see what you did there hue hue hue.

anthriel
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby anthriel » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:20 pm

(Mainly @Lateralus) I’d love to have some new classes etc but I don’t think that adding a new class (or even the entire lvl 25+ system) is anything but a short term solution (temporary interest generated, then eventually crushed by the oppressive guild/loot issues if those remain unfixed). It’s a “nice to have” but not until the guild system (and possibly the loot system to some degree) are fixed imho. The key to retaining players is making the guild system have more options, less factionalism etc and the loot system to support this (ie ways to progressively improve loot without needing to get involved with the drama of superguilds trying to always have the biggest posse available to stomp everyone else). Until that happens, the scores of once passionate players (even guild leaders - which we want more of!) etc will just stay away having already been burned by the current broken guild/loot system.

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Kruell
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Kruell » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:34 pm

I believe the problems with Ember retaining players can be boiled down to simple terms. People can't agree on the type of game they want it to be. I've heard a bunch of people say we need more pvp. Some people argue for more content, others say we need less to force more pvp. Right now the game is geared toward die hard players who grind away for hours a day. The main focus on things seems to be pvp (for instance, the thief class event focused on brute force fights with no attention to their main stealth ability). Areas and events are geared towards big groups/guilds where casual players don't stand a chance. Changing the fundamental system behind the game isn't required to fix these things, there are other ways we can go forward to actually manage to retain people.

1 PVP focus. It needs to end. I know a lot of people love the PVP aspect of the game but really it's time to quit pushing for more PVP. More PVP won't make the game viable in the long term. The lack of ability to play the game without PVP may be hurting the game. I have spoken to a lot of people who have gotten tired of the constant fighting in every aspect of the game. Everything centers around PVP, and as a PVP enabled game a certain amount is expected but we may have gone overboard in catering to a few at the expense of the many. This doesn't mean PVP should be removed, it means there needs to be some things in game that aren't subject to PVP for people who have no taste for it or simply don't like the attendant drama.

2 Casual Play desired. Not everyone can devote several hours a day or one whole day a week to playing the game. Sometimes people want to log on for 20 minutes and do something. Right now, you have to be really lucky in the 20 minute window you log on to do something other than level a character. With some people having 20+ lvl 25ers, there is nothing desirable to gain from leveling. It's time to put more stuff in game for people who have only a casual desire to play. If that means putting in dozens of mini-bosses in game so be it. Personally, I'd like to have an area with mini-bosses spawning hourly that drop decent gear but that disappear if they aren't killed in time. Throw in more "walkers" in leveling areas and you end up with a reason for people to log on and run around looking for stuff. Once crafting is introduced, having the "bosses" drop materials would be a good way to balance these out and give another pathway of attaining items as well as something casual players can do without needing a large guild.

3 Why are we here? Simply put, we need an immersive Lore. I take some responsibility for this since I've been working on Lore. Learning all the new stuff that has been put in over the last 2 years and then shoehorning it into a single cohesive lore structure isn't easy. Once we have a Lore base, we need to stick to it and build areas to play to it. We also need quest lines that take players through the story as well as giving them "perks" for completing milestones along the way. Think of the reputation system in World of Warcraft, we could easily use something like that for Ember. Once we have a set Lore, we can have a Questmaster to work on massive story lines where the players get to influence the world and help shape how things evolve.

4 The GRIND! It would help to fill in the grinding gaps. Once you hit level 20ish you start hitting large gaps in the quests forcing you to instead result to grinding away on killing certain monsters in order to hit max level. I believe we need to allow players other pathways to getting their characters finished without having to result to mindlessly wandering the wilds killing things. We could put more repeatable quests in as well as expanding the quests to be cross-zone, much like the dailies.

5 Toxicity. Ever read the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct from other games? We have people who play this game who would be banned quickly from other games for being a detriment to the game. Wizards of the Coast and Blizzard both have expansive CoCs and they deal with players who are a detriment to the game rather harshly. I have a confession, I had an account banned for life from Blizzard for violating their CoC. Not sure what I did as all they will tell me is I violated their terms, but after it happened I had to rebuild from nothing and made sure I didn't do anything in violation of their rules. Make it painful to break the rules, or make other people not want to play, and you will learn to play nice.
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